HORSEPLOP.COM
General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: Dave Yarock on July 18, 2020, 06:12:39 PM
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I have not posted anything in about 3 years. I am very distressed about about the future of the sport post covid and post FBI actions. It feels like the pandemic has just speeded up a process that was already in place. The casinos hold hostage the tracks they own and the tracks cannot exist without the revenue provided. It feels inevitable that the decoupling has begun and I’ll gain even more momentum. Monticello could be first on the chopping blocks with others soon to follow. I love the sport and have a huge investment in it. Would appreciate serious feedback and ideas to help its survival especially for the small guy.
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Sport cannot police itself,,,,,Too many chemists and the ones that can do something turn a blind eye,,,You reep what you sow
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NOW. DONT GO BLAMING THE CASINOS FOR THE DOWNFALL OF THE INDUSTRY. THIS INDUSTRY HAS DONE NOTHING BUT LIE TO AND CHEAT ITS CUSTOMERS, STIFFING TO GET A PRICE, AND NOW THE USE OF PED'S HAVE SENT CUSTOMERS LOOKING FOR OPTIONS. NEVER DO CUSTOMERS GET PUT ON A PEDESTAL,
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YOU CLOWNS SHOULD BE THANKING THE CASINO INDUSTRY EVERY CHANCE YOU GET FOR SAVING YOUR ASSES AND YOU SAY WE ARE HOLDING YOU HOSTAGE. GO FUCK YOURSELF DUDE
NO ONE GIVES A SHIT IF YOU HAVENT POSTED IN A DECADE, LIKE YOU ARE SO FUCKING IMPORTANT, PUT ALL YOUR FUCKING EGOS IN THE TOILET AND FLUSH IT.
DO WHAT YOU ARE TOLD AND KNOW YOUR ROLE
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read the post you moron..he is looking for real solutions to an industry that real horsemen love, not for your stupid comments. he is also brave enough to use his real name. he is asking for a real discussion.
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HARNESS PEOPLE SHOULD SHUT THEIR FUCKING PIE HOLES AND LISTEN TO THE CUSTOMERS. THEY HAVE BEEN TELLING YOU WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOUR GAME FOR YEARS AND NO ONE LISTENS.
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you seem to thinke all horsemen are cheaters and gassers. i can attest THEY ARE NOT. give the legitimate people some help with this and stop lumping everyone together
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When the casinos were coupled Harness Racing was dying at that point. The casinos have extended the life of harness racing for years now. Before the casinos came along harness people said they had to cheat because the purse money was too low. Cheating is worse than ever now, so that means they were not telling the truth, and probably never will. Until this nonsense stops, I will never wager on Harness racing.
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read the post you moron..he is looking for real solutions to an industry that real horsemen love, not for your stupid comments. he is also brave enough to use his real name. he is asking for a real discussion.
the guy cleans toilets for a living
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actually i am a professional..not a janitor and degenerate like yourself
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actually i am a professional..not a janitor and degenerate like yourself
I don’t think Joe was talking about you
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There is no future. The camel's back is finally broken. How do you expect an industry to survive that rewards participants that cheat. Drug trainers winning at 40% end up with a barn load of horses and if they get caught, they either get a slap on the wrist or just transfer horses to another name and business continues. If it wasn't for the FBI, Allard, Banca, Surick etc would still be at it, as state commissions and USTA are/were useless. Look at the glaucine positives. Look at the cobalt positives. Those trainers weren't slowed down at all. Owners get a pass but as far as I'm concerned, they are as guilty as the gas trainers. In most cases, they know when hooking up with a trainer if he or she is clean. To them the only thing that matters is ROI. Well guess what, the driver in a bank robbery doesn't actually rob the bank but if caught, they are charged as if they did so until the commissions start enforcing penalties aimed at dirty owners, there will always be drug trainers.
Amen to that.
Send this to HRU too, Mike.
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actually i am a professional..not a janitor and degenerate like yourself
i was talking about WINGS,,,,,THE GREATEST CAMODE CLEANER ON THE PLANET,,,,SORRY
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i was talking about WINGS,,,,,THE GREATEST CAMODE CLEANER ON THE PLANET,,,,SORRY
It's a horrible way to live, to be Obese and jealous of other men. I don't feel sorry for a degenerate like yourself. I'll say good bye now with your life expectancy less than another year.
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I have not posted anything in about 3 years. I am very distressed about about the future of the sport post covid and post FBI actions. It feels like the pandemic has just speeded up a process that was already in place. The casinos hold hostage the tracks they own and the tracks cannot exist without the revenue provided. It feels inevitable that the decoupling has begun and I’ll gain even more momentum. Monticello could be first on the chopping blocks with others soon to follow. I love the sport and have a huge investment in it. Would appreciate serious feedback and ideas to help its survival especially for the small guy.
Dave you came to the wrong place if you are looking for sympathy for horsemen on this forum..This is a tough crowd..Most of the stuff is just ball busting and pretty funny if you don't take anything too personal..
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I have not posted anything in about 3 years. I am very distressed about about the future of the sport post covid and post FBI actions. It feels like the pandemic has just speeded up a process that was already in place. The casinos hold hostage the tracks they own and the tracks cannot exist without the revenue provided. It feels inevitable that the decoupling has begun and I’ll gain even more momentum. Monticello could be first on the chopping blocks with others soon to follow. I love the sport and have a huge investment in it. Would appreciate serious feedback and ideas to help its survival especially for the small guy.
I agree , David. Like all other business cycles, after a recession like tech bubble of 2000, 9/11 and 2008, the most leveraged with the least assets, along with business plan and mission statement that is rendered obsolete by these down turns, harness racing is going to contract.
I believe New York owners, breeders and all others who derive their living from harness racing need to get in the room and reconfigure their priorities. Racing also needs new and more political allies, as it seems the current folks are not keyed into needs and direction of harness racing in New York.
The most effective and doable change needs to positively effect more people than currently served. We need more political power. I believe we need to redirect more of the slot revenue to breeding and stakes program and less to the overnight purse accounts.
If you look at the past 10 years, breeding in NY is either contracting or flat at best. When the casinos were at full operation, they contributed about $80 million a year to racing. 88% of that went to overnights. Changing that formula to say, 60% to overnights and 40% to breeding and stakes would make NY the #1 place to breed and race in the world. Double the breeders awards, attract the best sires in the world. Expand the racing program to include older horse stake races.
The hardest hit in this scenario would be the out of state owners and trainers who come here for the very fruitful overnight purses. I believe it is necessary to do this as we still need greater political power to keep the cash flowing to the NY Sire Stakes and breeders programs. You will have a mush easier time in creating this power if you can bring the heads of local and county governments with you, as they will also enjoy greater flow to their coffers. Also, investing in some fairgrounds that have not had a coat of paint in 50 years, would bring a solid grassroots power base to our side.
We all know the current system that provides us with many millions of dollars each year had a direction and an expected result. This taxpayer funded project was to improve the attendance at the local track. It was to attract new fans. It was to create greater interest in wagering. It was to stabilize and grow the breeding industry. Well, we all know where the business is since 2004, when the first VLT opened in Saratoga. The only thing that increased was our importation of owners and trainers in the trotting side that dominate the high end, as well as the importation of pacing horses from the Southern Hemisphere that now dominate almost every level of our racing conditions.
I am not against any of the people who found success in importing, it was done as a necessity due to the reduction of our foal crop. This just emphasizes my point as to a better and advanced local breeding program. Owners and trainers can invest in a local product if it can compete for the top money. A better NYS breeding and racing program can do this.
These are more or less of a starting point for a conversation. A great deal more can be added and quantified to build a great program that embraces more people and political power. Speaking of more people and power, it may be worth sharing some of the casino money with another equine discipline like Polo. They are struggling to stay relevant in NY and are sliding rapidly. Polo people tend to be much more influential politically and it would also give us a greater base at a minimal cost.
Just some thoughts . I hope NYS horsemen can get together and develop a new scope of business and build a political base that can get it done. If not, we will continue to contract and become irrelevant.
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Exactly.
the WELFARE must end.
It's laughable to read that someone believes it's better to redirect some existing welfare away from overnight purses to owners and breeders. GREEDY WELFARE HARNESS PEOPLE.
These GREEDY WELFARE HARNESS people never- ever - not once ever - said anything about the bettors.
The WELFARE days are coming to an end and right soon. All tese states are broke and it doesn't take a CPA to know where they are going to slice.
So, please, just fuck off. You had 30 years to clean te sport and do your part to try to grow it.
GREEDY GREEDY GREEDY
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I agree , David. Like all other business cycles, after a recession like tech bubble of 2000, 9/11 and 2008, the most leveraged with the least assets, along with business plan and mission statement that is rendered obsolete by these down turns, harness racing is going to contract.
I believe New York owners, breeders and all others who derive their living from harness racing need to get in the room and reconfigure their priorities. Racing also needs new and more political allies, as it seems the current folks are not keyed into needs and direction of harness racing in New York.
The most effective and doable change needs to positively effect more people than currently served. We need more political power. I believe we need to redirect more of the slot revenue to breeding and stakes program and less to the overnight purse accounts.
If you look at the past 10 years, breeding in NY is either contracting or flat at best. When the casinos were at full operation, they contributed about $80 million a year to racing. 88% of that went to overnights. Changing that formula to say, 60% to overnights and 40% to breeding and stakes would make NY the #1 place to breed and race in the world. Double the breeders awards, attract the best sires in the world. Expand the racing program to include older horse stake races.
The hardest hit in this scenario would be the out of state owners and trainers who come here for the very fruitful overnight purses. I believe it is necessary to do this as we still need greater political power to keep the cash flowing to the NY Sire Stakes and breeders programs. You will have a mush easier time in creating this power if you can bring the heads of local and county governments with you, as they will also enjoy greater flow to their coffers. Also, investing in some fairgrounds that have not had a coat of paint in 50 years, would bring a solid grassroots power base to our side.
We all know the current system that provides us with many millions of dollars each year had a direction and an expected result. This taxpayer funded project was to improve the attendance at the local track. It was to attract new fans. It was to create greater interest in wagering. It was to stabilize and grow the breeding industry. Well, we all know where the business is since 2004, when the first VLT opened in Saratoga. The only thing that increased was our importation of owners and trainers in the trotting side that dominate the high end, as well as the importation of pacing horses from the Southern Hemisphere that now dominate almost every level of our racing conditions.
I am not against any of the people who found success in importing, it was done as a necessity due to the reduction of our foal crop. This just emphasizes my point as to a better and advanced local breeding program. Owners and trainers can invest in a local product if it can compete for the top money. A better NYS breeding and racing program can do this.
These are more or less of a starting point for a conversation. A great deal more can be added and quantified to build a great program that embraces more people and political power. Speaking of more people and power, it may be worth sharing some of the casino money with another equine discipline like Polo. They are struggling to stay relevant in NY and are sliding rapidly. Polo people tend to be much more influential politically and it would also give us a greater base at a minimal cost.
Just some thoughts . I hope NYS horsemen can get together and develop a new scope of business and build a political base that can get it done. If not, we will continue to contract and become irrelevant.
Great post Exporter
I would also add that as well as moving overnite money to breeders awards and NYSS, the New York tracks need to protect their own by having all races NY preferred . PA. understands and does most of these things, and their program runs circles around NY because they do these things. New York leadership is absolutely horrible . Kelly Young who is the Executive Director is a moron and a liar, the NY program will never move forward with her at the helm. Pennsylvania has already laid out the mold , just copy it. Pennsylvania now breeds in excess of 5 times the number in NY , PA. now has all the top stallions in the world. Their farms and owners are swimming in cash while NY. starves.
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More petting zoos on weekends might solve everything?
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Thanks for the feedback to my post. I know there are a lot of ball busters and naysayers on this sight but there are also a lot of people who are thoughtful and have very constructive input. I thank Mike,Tumbleweed,Exporter and Foalin at 4 for their perspectives. I agree that the sport has been horribly mis managed both on a local and a national level. I know many things become obsolescent like the black and white tv and the rotary phone but they get replaced by better inventions. I don’t know if the sport can be saved but certainly not in its present iteration. Mike,do you feel there is any place for the small track or will we just end up with a couple of large track showcases. I guess it is the same as what Amazon and the like are doing to retail. I hope the sport can find a way to survive and maybe we who care can get our voices heard.
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mike and exporter are both considerate and on point..thank you
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HIRE PROFESSIONALS TO DO SURVEYS, TO DETERMINE WHAT, IF ANYTHING CAN OR EVEN SHOULD BE DONE.
HORSEMEN SHOULD HAVE NO SAY WHATEVER IN THE PROGRAM. THREY AND THEY ALONE HAVE RUINED EVERYTHING ABOUT THE SPORT. FROM THE CHEATING THRU STIFFING AND THE CURRENT PED CRAZE... IT IS ON THEIR BACKS... THE RAPED WHAT THEY SEWED.
AS SOME ELSE SAID....THEY SHOULD SHUT THE FUCK UP AND DO WHAT THEY ARE TOLD
WALLYMART IS HIRING... BUT YOU CANT SMOKE AND THE PREFER PEOPLE WHO SPEAK PROPER ENGLISH AND THOSE WHO HAVE TEEF
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Right now, with racing as the only action around, the increases to handle are not impressive nor are they sustaining. The moment casinos are back to open capacity, the racing interest will wain. I suggest it will fall not to pre covid levels but, to a much lower level, as people change their habits and find new interests.
When the covid is gone so will many of the marginal tracks. This is a normal business cycle.
So, in short term, there will be less racing with better and fuller content. The problem will be less interest.
I believe the future in racing is the owner and state funded stakes programs. The money coming from both casinos and pari-mutuel pools will shrink.
Places like Monticello has no place in the future of harness racing. There are many more tracks that will not fit into the future of racing.
As for the notion racing should stand on it's own with no taxpayer support, I ask you; what was the last apartment building that was built in your 'hood with no tax abatement program. What was the last business that built and opened in your town without a 10-20 year PILOT program? Some of the most prolific and profitable companies in the world will not make a move unless local and state government gives them millions for 10-20 years. Then the move and do it again.
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watched one race last night --- Shartin get beat
after the race was over they showed that $340,000 was wagered.....
I know there is some live handle on track -- but if you took 5% going to the track for purse, utilities, salaries, wages, taxes etc.....
Meds got $17,000
Granted this particular race was a paid event..... but the purse was $123,000 --- so as Gural says, every day I turn on the lights -- I lose money.
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HIRE PROFESSIONALS TO DO SURVEYS, TO DETERMINE WHAT, IF ANYTHING CAN OR EVEN SHOULD BE DONE.
HORSEMEN SHOULD HAVE NO SAY WHATEVER IN THE PROGRAM. THREY AND THEY ALONE HAVE RUINED EVERYTHING ABOUT THE SPORT. FROM THE CHEATING THRU STIFFING AND THE CURRENT PED CRAZE... IT IS ON THEIR BACKS... THE RAPED WHAT THEY SEWED.
AS SOME ELSE SAID....THEY SHOULD SHUT THE FUCK UP AND DO WHAT THEY ARE TOLD
WALLYMART IS HIRING... BUT YOU CANT SMOKE AND THE PREFER PEOPLE WHO SPEAK PROPER ENGLISH AND THOSE WHO HAVE TEEF
Is this one of those Google translations from a foreign language?