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General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: Open bridle on July 14, 2023, 12:20:43 PM

Title: What the difference between a top notch trainer and an average one besides cost?
Post by: Open bridle on July 14, 2023, 12:20:43 PM
From my experience a top notch trainer can spot minor problems before they turn into major ones that can either sideline or ruin a horse. Average trainers become aware of major problems when it's too late. You get what you pay for.
Title: Re: What the difference between a top notch trainer and an average one besides cost?
Post by: hoosierboy on July 14, 2023, 01:47:09 PM
Vet
Title: Re: What the difference between a top notch trainer and an average one besides cost?
Post by: Generation XYZ on July 14, 2023, 01:56:33 PM
Daily Rate!
Title: Re: What the difference between a top notch trainer and an average one besides cost?
Post by: Chips N Salsa on July 14, 2023, 07:37:46 PM
Top trainers don't have problems because they know how to hang a horse and train one before they become lame.  All in all though almost anyone can train a great horse.  Case in point - Muscle Hill Greg Peck couldn't train Lassie to piss on paper and Muscle Hill was one of the greatest of all time.
Title: Re: What the difference between a top notch trainer and an average one besides cost?
Post by: Kirbys Ace on July 14, 2023, 08:26:13 PM
Agree, Good horses make good trainers. It's not exactly rocket science training a standardbred.

It's Just rocket science when it comes to pre-racing!
Title: Re: What the difference between a top notch trainer and an average one besides cost?
Post by: Open bridle on July 14, 2023, 11:21:14 PM
Agree, Good horses make good trainers. It's not exactly rocket science training a standardbred.

It's Just rocket science when it comes to pre-racing!
I'm sure most trainers can hang a horse correctly and trained them down. But to me what sets them apart are the good trainers that can spot minor lameness issues, EPM, etc. before they turned into something chronic or career threatening.
Title: Re: What the difference between a top notch trainer and an average one besides cost?
Post by: mwins on July 15, 2023, 01:05:51 PM
Top trainers usually don't cut corners, or condone lazy staff.
Title: Re: What the difference between a top notch trainer and an average one besides cost?
Post by: harnessplop on July 15, 2023, 03:21:13 PM
All a,sham
Title: Re: What the difference between a top notch trainer and an average one besides cost?
Post by: Generation XYZ on July 15, 2023, 03:28:59 PM
There are good trainers at every level of the game, just as equally there are bad trainers at every level.
Title: Re: What the difference between a top notch trainer and an average one besides cost?
Post by: Meadow Ford on July 15, 2023, 04:15:13 PM
IMHO
The best asset a trainer can have is People Skills!
Dealing with the horses is the easy fun part!
Dealing with the people is the hard part!
Title: Re: What the difference between a top notch trainer and an average one besides cost?
Post by: Parked on July 15, 2023, 04:42:56 PM
Pretty much it is the quality of stock they get to train.  There are some trainers that do exceptionally well with the stock they get. 
Title: Re: What the difference between a top notch trainer and an average one besides cost?
Post by: Harness Stats on July 15, 2023, 05:18:26 PM
All of these answers have merit by in my experience it really did come down to the vet. A good one can make an average horse a star without the juice we know today.
Title: Re: What the difference between a top notch trainer and an average one besides cost?
Post by: Open bridle on July 15, 2023, 06:19:48 PM
All of these answers have merit by in my experience it really did come down to the vet. A good one can make an average horse a star without the juice we know today.
I'm curious, what can a vet give a horse that's not illegal the can improve their performance to make them a star ? I know they can take away the aches and pains, but to make them faster than their born to be ?
Title: Re: What the difference between a top notch trainer and an average one besides cost?
Post by: Kirbys Ace on July 15, 2023, 06:24:00 PM
Name a owner or stable that has many horses and doesn't use a juice top trainer?

I'm sure there's a few, but not many that I know of on the East Coast circuit.
Title: Re: What the difference between a top notch trainer and an average one besides cost?
Post by: Harness Stats on July 15, 2023, 06:46:13 PM
I'm curious, what can a vet give a horse that's not illegal the can improve their performance to make them a star ? I know they can take away the aches and pains, but to make them faster than their born to be ?
In the 80s there were "treatments"  frowned upon but not "illegal" given once or twice. 
We had a horse who had them and everything turned around.  He was an average well bred horse taken from a once great trainer who used old methods.  For us with an average trainer but great vet he improved enough to race in stakes and never had any chemical treatments.  If it wasn't for injury who knows how good he might have been.  We were going to supplement him  to the last Messenger at RR. 
Title: Re: What the difference between a top notch trainer and an average one besides cost?
Post by: Gaagoots on July 15, 2023, 07:32:55 PM
Everybody thought Pelling was a genius only to find out he was using a box of soda before anybody else.

A good trainer knows lameness and feeds a horse properly, also doesn’t over train.

95% of them are just gassers now.
Title: Re: What the difference between a top notch trainer and an average one besides cost?
Post by: Kirbys Ace on July 15, 2023, 09:36:44 PM
Everybody thought Pelling was a genius only to find out he was using a box of soda before anybody else.

A good trainer knows lameness and feeds a horse properly, also doesn’t over train.

95% of them are just gassers now.

Wait a minute here. This is not a SCM thread. WTF are you doing posting here!

 73cv.2
Title: Re: What the difference between a top notch trainer and an average one besides cost?
Post by: rainman2 on July 15, 2023, 11:53:32 PM
Everybody thought Pelling was a genius only to find out he was using a box of soda before anybody else.

A good trainer knows lameness and feeds a horse properly, also doesn’t over train.

95% of them are just gassers now.

Can you please name a few trainers in the other 5%??
Title: Re: What the difference between a top notch trainer and an average one besides cost?
Post by: Generation XYZ on July 16, 2023, 07:49:23 AM
Can you please name a few trainers in the other 5%??

Thats a good question. How many could there be?
Title: Re: What the difference between a top notch trainer and an average one besides cost?
Post by: White Rabbit on July 16, 2023, 08:12:11 AM
I don’t think it matters if it’s a top trainer with a stakes horse or a blue collar trainer with an overnight horse. In my experience it comes down to the owner being financially disciplined, if a top trainer goes to the owner,”Said horse is off needs to be shut down for a bit “, that’s the owner’s decision because there paying the bills. Most of the time owners response will be said horse is heavy staked , don’t want to miss up coming stakes, is it that serious can’t we work through it. Blue collar trainer with an overnight horse for and average owner, get slightly different response but same general sentiment, is it that serious horse is racing good can’t we work through it.
Wether it be top stakes horse or overnighters both categories of trainers would like to keep racing but the majority of trainers in both categories know that if they do the outcome with out rest will be negative.
At the end of the day 70% of the trainers , top trainers or blue collar, have the conversation with the owner and it’s their decision because they’re paying the bill.
Comes down to financial discipline on the owner’s behalf.
Title: Re: What the difference between a top notch trainer and an average one besides cost?
Post by: BoKnows on July 17, 2023, 02:03:41 AM
In my experience, the difference between the top trainers and average ones is about $2500 per month in vet bills and about $40 per day in their day rate.
Title: Re: What the difference between a top notch trainer and an average one besides cost?
Post by: Gaagoots on July 17, 2023, 10:34:30 AM
Wait a minute here. This is not a SCM thread. WTF are you doing posting here!

 73cv.2
😂😂
Title: Re: What the difference between a top notch trainer and an average one besides cost?
Post by: Gaagoots on July 17, 2023, 10:36:53 AM
Can you please name a few trainers in the other 5%??
hummm that’s a good question Rainman…
Title: Re: What the difference between a top notch trainer and an average one besides cost?
Post by: Mailbox Money on July 17, 2023, 10:48:00 AM
The better barns also attract the best caretakers due to the fact that they have everything they want to care for the horse. Besides that they never worry about pay glitches or rarely getting win bonuses!  tmbz1
Title: Re: What the difference between a top notch trainer and an average one besides cost?
Post by: panhunter on July 18, 2023, 09:14:42 AM
DRUGS
Title: Re: What the difference between a top notch trainer and an average one besides cost?
Post by: Generation XYZ on July 18, 2023, 07:28:26 PM
Ther difference between 75.00 -175.00 per day. thats the difference.
Title: Re: What the difference between a top notch trainer and an average one besides cost?
Post by: Kirbys Ace on July 18, 2023, 08:41:35 PM
Top trainers use a 2nd trainer to admin the go go juice.

Average ones do it their self.
Title: Re: What the difference between a top notch trainer and an average one besides cost?
Post by: rainman2 on July 18, 2023, 09:34:43 PM
Ther difference between 75.00 -175.00 per day. thats the difference.

Wow, my trainer doesn't charge these rates and I consider him one of those 5% trainers that is listed on an earlier post here!
At 175/day I should own a t-bred at the Saratoga meet and race for big $$$
Title: Re: What the difference between a top notch trainer and an average one besides cost?
Post by: Generation XYZ on July 18, 2023, 09:36:02 PM
Wow, my trainer doesn't charge these rates and I consider him one of those 5% trainers that is listed on an earlier post here!
At 175/day I should own a t-bred at the Saratoga meet and race for big $$$

Baffert is almost 300.00 per day
Title: Re: What the difference between a top notch trainer and an average one besides cost?
Post by: rainman2 on July 18, 2023, 09:46:07 PM
Baffert is almost 300.00 per day

So my standardbred trainer who is in the best 5% of trainers from the previous post and less than 75/day is a bargain!
Title: Re: What the difference between a top notch trainer and an average one besides cost?
Post by: BoKnows on July 19, 2023, 02:05:09 AM
Wow, my trainer doesn't charge these rates and I consider him one of those 5% trainers that is listed on an earlier post here!
At 175/day I should own a t-bred at the Saratoga meet and race for big $$$

If you get a NYB maiden, they race for $136,500 at the Saratoga meet. Should be able to find a decent trainer for $125/day
Title: Re: What the difference between a top notch trainer and an average one besides cost?
Post by: Parked on July 19, 2023, 06:16:14 AM
What puts a trainer in the “big trainer” category??  Number of horses they are listed on as trainer ? How much is your bill per month or where they stand in wins or money earnings ?
Title: Re: What the difference between a top notch trainer and an average one besides cost?
Post by: mwins on July 19, 2023, 08:40:44 AM
As an owner,the only input you should have is classification and who drives.
Title: Re: What the difference between a top notch trainer and an average one besides cost?
Post by: Open bridle on July 19, 2023, 08:42:22 AM
As an owner,the only input you should have is classification and who drives.
My opinion is just because some trainers have made a name for themselves doesn't mean they are the best fit for you. I just want one that has a good knowledge of harness horses , willing to listen to the owners input and doesn't cost a arm and a leg. Not all of us want to be on the grand circuit stage.
Title: Re: What the difference between a top notch trainer and an average one besides cost?
Post by: Open bridle on July 19, 2023, 08:55:01 AM
As an owner,the only input you should have is classification and who drives.
And that's enough for me. At least your not just writing checks without any say. Like The Stable for example.
Title: Re: What the difference between a top notch trainer and an average one besides cost?
Post by: Generation XYZ on July 19, 2023, 03:09:28 PM
In Today's world it seems like the top Notch are chemists, and the bottom are guys that struggle to compete.
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