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General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: 3widetooearly on July 16, 2023, 04:18:01 PM
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Anyone know why this horse switched barns? Brown did make 440k with this horse as a 2yo. Ownership have a falling out?
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Diamond Creek didn't want some girl bigger than the horse trying to take care of him. None of his grooms can even bend over to work on a leg or wrap one up!
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Diamond Creek didn't want some girl bigger than the horse trying to take care of him. None of his grooms can even bend over to work on a leg or wrap one up!
ngc3
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It has nothing to do with Brian Brown being a good trainer and everything to do with arrogance of Diamond Creek.
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It has nothing to do with Brian Brown being a good trainer and everything to do with arrogance of Diamond Creek.
More like it has more to do with the horses that have gone backward year after year for Brian Brown from 2 to 3. No idea what he does but his horses have not come back good and when they leave they go forward. I can think of at least 3 like that just for Diamond Creek.
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It has nothing to do with Brian Brown being a good trainer and everything to do with arrogance of Diamond Creek.
No bigger prick in the business than Bowden.
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More like it has more to do with the horses that have gone backward year after year for Brian Brown from 2 to 3. No idea what he does but his horses have not come back good and when they leave they go forward. I can think of at least 3 like that just for Diamond Creek.
what happened to all those horses a couple years back...so many good ones at 2 and most failures at 3
they made the right choice with Pelling
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Brown will find the good one because he's brutal tough on them training down at two but they don't last because one they have no foundation and two they get no care. He has people taking care of 6-8 head each and there is no possible way a top top horse can get proper care like that. He will find one with raw talent but honestly most any idiot could do the same when your playing with top stock like that. He doesn't know how to condition a horse properly or peek one. His horses are good early and then they are toast late. DBTS was like Muscle Hill - Just couldn't be destroyed and that's why he's an incredible sire.
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what happened to all those horses a couple years back...so many good ones at 2 and most failures at 3
they made the right choice with Pelling
My last two sire stakes horses were good at 2 and never came back at 3. Some become lame and some become sour and Brian Brown was not my trainer. I've learned after having many horses it's usually the horse not the trainer.
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Brown will find the good one because he's brutal tough on them training down at two but they don't last because one they have no foundation and two they get no care. He has people taking care of 6-8 head each and there is no possible way a top top horse can get proper care like that. He will find one with raw talent but honestly most any idiot could do the same when your playing with top stock like that. He doesn't know how to condition a horse properly or peek one. His horses are good early and then they are toast late. DBTS was like Muscle Hill - Just couldn't be destroyed and that's why he's an incredible sire.
I think Burke is just as brutal if not more training down as Brown is.
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Horse made 440k last year in limited starts. Brian did great with him. He trains in Florida. His grooms have been doing this their whole lives. Saying they have no foundation is an ignorant statement. He does his work and does a good job by his help and the horses. When one doesn't come back great at 3 it's usually changes in the horse itself , not the trainer. Burke trains down harder than brian . Newsflash: this is what big owners want. It's sink or swim. Have them ready. If they aren't, down the road they go, regardless of investment for the most part. These guys are looking for champions and if they can't hold up to training down, how will they hold up to racing
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Horse made 440k last year in limited starts. Brian did great with him. He trains in Florida. His grooms have been doing this their whole lives. Saying they have no foundation is an ignorant statement. He does his work and does a good job by his help and the horses. When one doesn't come back great at 3 it's usually changes in the horse itself , not the trainer. Burke trains down harder than brian . Newsflash: this is what big owners want. It's sink or swim. Have them ready. If they aren't, down the road they go, regardless of investment for the most part. These guys are looking for champions and if they can't hold up to training down, how will they hold up to racing
Ignorant? Have you sat there and watch him train down his babies? He jogs 2-3 miles and they go about a 3:30 clip jogging. He does this because he has no help no assistant trainers and no clue! Why is that Burke gets horses he can't get to go and they flourish with Burke? Won the West ring a bell? I could name ten more too. When Marcus Johanson went there this winter Confederate looked horrible and was blowing like a freight train after jogging. He knew there was no miles in him and he wouldn't hold up. It took Pelling two months to get him into somewhat race shape. Had to qua him and then protect him. Now he's fit and ready. Last week he was exhausted finishing but Pelling has his plans and last night he was gorilla. Some like Burke / Pelling / Takter know how to condition a top top horse. Brian Brown just hopes and prays and only can work with god given talent. He isn't making any horse better or able to race a top top horse.
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There's no telling how the horse would have done with brian this season. Point is he did well with him at 2. Saying he doesn't know how to race a top horse is also ignorant. See downbytheseaside and fear the dragon just a few years back.
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Like I said previously DBTS was a gorilla that he couldn't possibly screw up. No different than Greg Peck and Muscle Hill. Anyone could have trained SBSW and he still would have been great. The POINT is you were able to name two horses of which one only won one big race that Brown has produced out of how many babies a year? Started the last ten plus yrs with 70 plus? 1 for 700 ain't too shabby. LOL
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My last two sire stakes horses were good at 2 and never came back at 3. Some become lame and some become sour and Brian Brown was not my trainer. I've learned after having many horses it's usually the horse not the trainer.
I think you should re-evaluate your trainer(s).
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you’re a moron
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Ignorant? Have you sat there and watch him train down his babies? He jogs 2-3 miles and they go about a 3:30 clip jogging. He does this because he has no help no assistant trainers and no clue! Why is that Burke gets horses he can't get to go and they flourish with Burke? Won the West ring a bell? I could name ten more too. When Marcus Johanson went there this winter Confederate looked horrible and was blowing like a freight train after jogging. He knew there was no miles in him and he wouldn't hold up. It took Pelling two months to get him into somewhat race shape. Had to qua him and then protect him. Now he's fit and ready. Last week he was exhausted finishing but Pelling has his plans and last night he was gorilla. Some like Burke / Pelling / Takter know how to condition a top top horse. Brian Brown just hopes and prays and only can work with god given talent. He isn't making any horse better or able to race a top top horse.
Confederate was NOT "exhausted" at the end of his elimination win last week. Timmy shut him down especially last 1/16th he said he had two more untapped gears in him. You saw one of those gears last night in the final. this colt is in a different galaxy than his foes. He'll win in 46 flat this year.
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Ignorant? Have you sat there and watch him train down his babies? He jogs 2-3 miles and they go about a 3:30 clip jogging. He does this because he has no help no assistant trainers and no clue! Why is that Burke gets horses he can't get to go and they flourish with Burke? Won the West ring a bell? I could name ten more too. When Marcus Johanson went there this winter Confederate looked horrible and was blowing like a freight train after jogging. He knew there was no miles in him and he wouldn't hold up. It took Pelling two months to get him into somewhat race shape. Had to qua him and then protect him. Now he's fit and ready. Last week he was exhausted finishing but Pelling has his plans and last night he was gorilla.
Some like Burke / Pelling / Takter know how to condition a top top horse. Brian Brown just hopes and prays and only can work with god given talent. He isn't making any horse better or able to race a top top horse.
Yes I have watched him train his babies down in Fl. and if you say they don’t get a foundation I think you are watching the wrong horses. He does as good a job as any and better than most. Just not a flashy, smooth talking trainer like many..
I just know him casually and have never been in his barn so no reason to comment on barn help. I do see the hay truck at his barn and I’ll tell you he feeds the best.
Makes me wonder how an owner of a horse that makes a ton of money as a 2 year old tell the trainer he is moving him.? No class.
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Jealousy rears its ugly head. SBSW was perhaps the best managed horse in years. Macgrath might not be Billy Haughton, but the horse was managed business-wise in a way few could match. It’s obvious you harbour ulterior motives and have no clue what goes into managing a top horse. Slither back into your hole in the ground.
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Confederate was not the only horse that switched from Brown at the end of last year. It seemed to me that his whole stable moved so he could focus on his babies. Just the ones I remember that switched barns are Night Hawk, Trick of the Light, Gulf Shores, Six Feet Apart, and Ario Hanover.
In earlier years he developed Workin on A Mystery and Limelight Beach who ended up with Burke
and he made his name years ago by developing Won the West before giving him to Burke, so this is an ongoing thing with him
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brian is an awesome trainer
usually concentrates on pacers and mostly 2 and 3 yr olds ,
family run barn that works hard and produces results tmbz1
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its a moot point
confederate has been awesome so the right call was made
no one knows how he would have been had he stayed with brown ,
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How many great 3yr olds has Pelling had? How many for Brian? No comparison!!! Nothing against Brian, champions matter. Do you remember what Oakes did with his good 3yr olds, he sent them to Pelling and Harder, and made a ton of cash. Remember Electric Yankee, Haughton to Peling. It's about money not vanity.
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Yes I have watched him train his babies down in Fl. and if you say they don’t get a foundation I think you are watching the wrong horses. He does as good a job as any and better than most. Just not a flashy, smooth talking trainer like many..
I just know him casually and have never been in his barn so no reason to comment on barn help. I do see the hay truck at his barn and I’ll tell you he feeds the best.
Makes me wonder how an owner of a horse that makes a ton of money as a 2 year old tell the trainer he is moving him.? No class.
Brian is a good guy no doubt, but he’s just okay as a trainer. Burke is softer on his babies than Brian for sure and gets more to the races and more come back at 3 for Ronnie. I’ve never seen a Burke horse unfit or poorly rigged/shod. I’ve seen all 3 from Brian’s horses. Doesn’t make him a bad person just not a top trainer.
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All I know is, today, if I had a monster pacer coming 3 and wanted to "get it all", I'd have to give it to Brett Pelling before any other trainer. Btw, I was a guy who growing up idolized Robert McCintosh I still and will always believe he is one of the top 5 trainers in the history of the sport.
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Those two are top CONDITIONERS of horses. They put in the work and know how to peak a horse at just the right times.
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I think it is kind of comical that according to many posters on this board Brian Brown cannot train a horse and yet for some reason he has 3 of the top 5 fastest 2 year olds in the country and maybe the best one is 9th. So, 4 of the top 10 with a UTRS of .500. Nope he can't train a horse i guess.
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I think it is kind of comical that according to many posters on this board Brian Brown cannot train a horse and yet for some reason he has 3 of the top 5 fastest 2 year olds in the country and maybe the best one is 9th. So, 4 of the top 10 with a UTRS of .500. Nope he can't train a horse i guess.
And right now it looks like he has more 2 yr olds racing than 3 year olds. And it’s not like he’s BAD, but he’s definitely a step below the best.
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How many trotters have come out of his stable?
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How many trotters have come out of his stable?
He doesn't train trotters because his owners won't buy them.
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He doesn't train trotters because his owners won't buy them.
I mean he’s training one now, a green shoe.
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He doesn't train trotters because his owners won't buy them.
Why wont they buy them?
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Because you have to be a real trainer to race a trotter.. You just can gas and go a trotter, or they'll run like a Gazelle!
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i know, my question was only partly serious. My point was owners will invest in trotters with a truly top trainer.
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I have used many trainers over the years and would not hesitate to use Brian Brown. He is well respected for his knowledge of horses and honest.
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Because you have to be a real trainer to race a trotter.. You just can gas and go a trotter, or they'll run like a Gazelle!
ngc3 ngc3 ngc3