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General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: Miguel_Sanchez on September 09, 2023, 11:03:48 PM

Title: Worst Top Five Driver?
Post by: Miguel_Sanchez on September 09, 2023, 11:03:48 PM
By far and away Yannick Gingras.  Goes a 30.3 quarter today with Bythemissal and jambs up a race at Yonkers.  Then goes to SCD tonight and puts Beach Glass on the front and instead of pulling to the passing lane when he was damn near falling down he wipes everyone out!  That's amateur bush league bullshit and he's supposed to be HOF? Take away Burke & Takter and he has nothing.  He can't drive for anyone else or win anything big.  He's the only driver in history to be 99% dependent on two trainers. 
Title: Re: Worst Top Five Driver?
Post by: Low Groove on September 09, 2023, 11:09:15 PM
Sorry you lost your bet on him
Title: Re: Worst Top Five Driver?
Post by: theokodjak26 on September 09, 2023, 11:48:50 PM
Yannick flies out to Scioto for 3 drives. Wins 2 of them and pays $22 to win in a second over trip beauty in a $300,000 race. And today between his drives at YR and SD he brought in $580,000. Yannick is always in the top 5 in earnings and UDRS and you think he is nothing without Burke and Takter? Maybe they choose Yannick because they like short people and talent doesn’t come into play? I’m sorry how does Yannick qualify as a top 5 worst driver?
Title: Re: Worst Top Five Driver?
Post by: Fuguzzi on September 10, 2023, 12:11:57 AM
Yannick flies out to Scioto for 3 drives. Wins 2 of them and pays $22 to win in a second over trip beauty in a $300,000 race. And today between his drives at YR and SD he brought in $580,000. Yannick is always in the top 5 in earnings and UDRS and you think he is nothing without Burke and Takter? Maybe they choose Yannick because they like short people and talent doesn’t come into play? I’m sorry how does Yannick qualify as a top 5 worst driver?
ever read much of what harnessfan2023 writes? He is an idiot. If Yannick depends on Burke, can't it be said that Burke depends on Yannic?. After all Ron doesm't HAVE to use YG.
Title: Re: Worst Top Five Driver?
Post by: Fuguzzi on September 10, 2023, 12:15:41 AM
I personally feel Jason Bartlett is extremely overrated and very ordinary. he has found his niche and God bless him. Outside YR, he is nothing.
Title: Re: Worst Top Five Driver?
Post by: Fuguzzi on September 10, 2023, 12:53:20 AM
Yannick 8.5 million earned   UDRS  .356 almost 4 months and the Jug and Breeders Crown day still to go.   Harnessfan2023 should go watch roller derby
Title: Re: Worst Top Five Driver?
Post by: Fuguzzi on September 10, 2023, 12:57:38 AM
I get the fact that Dexter Dunn has earned almost $6M in purses so far but with 150 wins and only 1000 drives all year, (UDRS) around a flat 300, are we seeing a few chinks in the armor and a bit of falling out of favor?
Title: Re: Worst Top Five Driver?
Post by: Generation XYZ on September 10, 2023, 09:22:26 AM
If we are speaking of worst drivers. Lets not forget Greg Peck, and the the near catastrophe almost caused with Marcus Miller last year. This guy is still at the top of the list for Harness Racings A-Hole Hall of Fame, or the (AHHOF).
Title: Re: Worst Top Five Driver?
Post by: theokodjak26 on September 10, 2023, 10:24:17 AM
If we are speaking of worst drivers. Lets not forget Greg Peck, and the the near catastrophe almost caused with Marcus Miller last year. This guy is still at the top of the list for Harness Racings A-Hole Hall of Fame, or the (AHHOF).
tmbz1 tmbz1  tmbz1
Title: Re: Worst Top Five Driver?
Post by: titans1127 on September 10, 2023, 02:04:07 PM
I personally feel Jason Bartlett is extremely overrated and very ordinary. he has found his niche and God bless him. Outside YR, he is nothing.
Honestly, most of his success at Yonkers since he showed up has been because he was first call for the main drug trainer each year.  Sumner, Medeiros, Banca, Milici, etc.
Title: Re: Worst Top Five Driver?
Post by: Fuguzzi on September 10, 2023, 02:07:48 PM
 tmbz1 tmbz1 tmbz1
Title: Re: Worst Top Five Driver?
Post by: theokodjak26 on September 10, 2023, 02:15:22 PM
Honestly, most of his success at Yonkers since he showed up has been because he was first call for the main drug trainer each year.  Sumner, Medeiros, Banca, Milici, etc.

Honestly can’t you say the same about many of the top Big M and NYC drivers? It was hear no evil see no evil. Ethics aside was it the top drivers job to ask all the questionable trainers if they juiced their horses? In the same year the MLB player steroid use estimate was over 80%. How much different was it at the Big M and NYC?
Title: Re: Worst Top Five Driver?
Post by: Fuguzzi on September 10, 2023, 02:23:40 PM
Honestly can’t you say the same about many of the top Big M and NYC drivers? It was hear no evil see no evil. Ethics aside was it the top drivers job to ask all the questionable trainers if they juiced their horses? In the same year the MLB player steroid use estimate was over 80%. How much different was it at the Big M and NYC?
Of course, as you know many of the top drivers from our era also were very good trainers and maintained some top flight barns. in fact hard to name any top drivers who didn't maintain a good barn as well
Title: Re: Worst Top Five Driver?
Post by: Lance on September 10, 2023, 02:51:08 PM
If we are speaking of worst drivers. Lets not forget Greg Peck, and the the near catastrophe almost caused with Marcus Miller last year. This guy is still at the top of the list for Harness Racings A-Hole Hall of Fame, or the (AHHOF).

 I disagree, Peck is a top notch driver......just ask him.
Title: Re: Worst Top Five Driver?
Post by: Generation XYZ on September 10, 2023, 03:01:19 PM
I disagree, Peck is a top notch driver......just ask him.

 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 Thats true.
Title: Re: Worst Top Five Driver?
Post by: wisha roder on September 10, 2023, 10:16:53 PM
By far and away Yannick Gingras.  Goes a 30.3 quarter today with Bythemissal and jambs up a race at Yonkers.  Then goes to SCD tonight and puts Beach Glass on the front and instead of pulling to the passing lane when he was damn near falling down he wipes everyone out!  That's amateur bush league bullshit and he's supposed to be HOF? Take away Burke & Takter and he has nothing.  He can't drive for anyone else or win anything big.  He's the only driver in history to be 99% dependent on two trainers.
Agree, and remember it's the worst of the top 5 drivers.  Personally, i think he's a good driver, but not a HOF driver.  Would he have gotten there without the opportunity to drive the Burke & Takter monsters?  Screwing Somebeachsomewher e and Charlie May out of winning the Meadowlands Pace Races will forever stick in my mind.
Title: Re: Worst Top Five Driver?
Post by: Fuguzzi on September 10, 2023, 10:30:47 PM
Agree, and remember it's the worst of the top 5 drivers.  Personally, i think he's a good driver, but not a HOF driver.  Would he have gotten there without the opportunity to drive the Burke & Takter monsters?  Screwing Somebeachsomewher e and Charlie May out of winning the Meadowlands Pace Races will forever stick in my mind.
You have embarrassed yourself with this post. Yannick is not a HOF driver? In what twisted reality. He is among the highest average earning drivers per start in the history of the sport. In fact, he could very well retire as the leading driver in that category.
i like how people say without Burke and Takter monsters, he wouldn't blah, blah, blah. Well how did he get those opportunities to begin with? Because he was damned good!
Title: Re: Worst Top Five Driver?
Post by: Miguel_Sanchez on September 10, 2023, 10:57:24 PM
You have embarrassed yourself with this post. Yannick is not a HOF driver? In what twisted reality. He is among the highest average earning drivers per start in the history of the sport. In fact, he could very well retire as the leading driver in that category.
i like how people say without Burke and Takter monsters, he wouldn't blah, blah, blah. Well how did he get those opportunities to begin with? Because he was damned good!

How did he get?  It was really simple he was told how to drive and he did it no matter how bad he looked doing it.  He has NEVER driven with any strategy or how a certain horse needs to be driven.  He is under orders from Burke to get to the front at all costs and keep going.  Burke only has gunners and cowboys driving for him.  Probably why Kakaly didn't last because he can actually drive a horse with strategy and has a set of hands.  Yannick has one talent and that's not to care.  He could probably be a better driver but his style is one way.  If he can't make the front he panics and doesn't know what to do.  I would love to know the stats on his wins in stake races and the % of those wins where he was one front.  My guess is about 90%+ he's on the hammer!  Ronnie should put on Nicole Diconstanza - she weighs 90lbs and can't hold one so she would be great.  I hear she will blow you too so she's right up Ronnie's alley!   ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
Title: Re: Worst Top Five Driver?
Post by: theokodjak26 on September 10, 2023, 11:09:22 PM
This belittling Yannick is so ridiculous I am literally shocked. Do any of you naysayers recall how good this kid was when he came up? First at Yonkers then at the Big M. He didn’t have Burke or Takter back then. He opened up a lot of big trainers eyes to his talent which has only gotten better. I am sure Burke and Takter may talk strategy before a race but as everyone knows once the starter says go it is up to the driver to figure it out. Guys like Yannick, Sears, Dave Miller, Brennan and more have tremendous guts and reflexes not to mention harness driving brains. What is this really all about? Too many tickets ripped up and looking for someone else to blame?
Title: Re: Worst Top Five Driver?
Post by: rainman2 on September 10, 2023, 11:16:25 PM
How did he get?  It was really simple he was told how to drive and he did it no matter how bad he looked doing it.  He has NEVER driven with any strategy or how a certain horse needs to be driven.  He is under orders from Burke to get to the front at all costs and keep going.  Burke only has gunners and cowboys driving for him.  Probably why Kakaly didn't last because he can actually drive a horse with strategy and has a set of hands.  Yannick has one talent and that's not to care.  He could probably be a better driver but his style is one way.  If he can't make the front he panics and doesn't know what to do.  I would love to know the stats on his wins in stake races and the % of those wins where he was one front.  My guess is about 90%+ he's on the hammer!  Ronnie should put on Nicole Diconstanza - she weighs 90lbs and can't hold one so she would be great.  I hear she will blow you too so she's right up Ronnie's alley!   ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3

If I remember correctly, Matt Kakaley has driven more "crappy" horses than Yannick ever has!  Kakaley won many races at Northfield before VLT"S arrived with purses for $1500-6000 where the drivers and their friends could make more money at the windows than on the racetrack as there were actually pools to bet into!  Matt paid his dues, but was in the wrong place at the wrong time being 2nd banana behind Yannick!
Title: Re: Worst Top Five Driver?
Post by: Fuguzzi on September 10, 2023, 11:21:57 PM
This belittling Yannick is so ridiculous I am literally shocked. Do any of you naysayers recall how good this kid was when he came up? First at Yonkers then at the Big M. He didn’t have Burke or Takter back then. He opened up a lot of big trainers eyes to his talent which has only gotten better. I am sure Burke and Takter may talk strategy before a race but as everyone knows once the starter says go it is up to the driver to figure it out. Guys like Yannick, Sears, Dave Miller, Brennan and more have tremendous guts and reflexes not to mention harness driving brains. What is this really all about? Too many tickets ripped up and looking for someone else to blame?
Right on brother!
Title: Re: Worst Top Five Driver?
Post by: SeattleSlew on September 11, 2023, 04:36:12 AM
Of course, as you know many of the top drivers from our era also were very good trainers and maintained some top flight barns. in fact hard to name any top drivers who didn't maintain a good barn as well

How many drivers carry stopwatches with them any more??  I remember that Lou Miller (who taught me to jog) told me to go out and buy a certain kind of stopwatch and said that it was "must have" for doing any training and even moreso for driving.

Occasionally certain drivers seem to be "out of rhythm"...like Dexter Dunn, whose timing and moves just seem off in the past 3 or 4 months.  He hasn't quite gotten back yet.  Timmy T (earlier this year) and David M (last year) also had periods in the past where you could see they were either starting up too late and could have caught someone (and didn't) or allowed slow 2nd quarter fractions while they were 6, 7 or 8 lengths back, with almost no chance to outsprint front horses who hadn't been used all that hard.
Title: Re: Worst Top Five Driver?
Post by: Fuguzzi on September 11, 2023, 07:46:35 AM
How many drivers carry stopwatches with them any more??  I remember that Lou Miller (who taught me to jog) told me to go out and buy a certain kind of stopwatch and said that it was "must have" for doing any training and even moreso for driving.

Occasionally certain drivers seem to be "out of rhythm"...like Dexter Dunn, whose timing and moves just seem off in the past 3 or 4 months.  He hasn't quite gotten back yet.  Timmy T (earlier this year) and David M (last year) also had periods in the past where you could see they were either starting up too late and could have caught someone (and didn't) or allowed slow 2nd quarter fractions while they were 6, 7 or 8 lengths back, with almost no chance to outsprint front horses who hadn't been used all that hard.
You make some very interesting points. I think overall what you are seeing, where top drivers go through periods of appearing to be out of sync is just another by product of the extreme speed at which virtually all horses seem to race now. The "whole flow" of most races is so much different now. Many fewer live flows of cover, shorter fields due to a lack of horses, etc. if you are not a part of the speed upfront, you are forced to fight into it running the risk of having nothing left in the sprint home. I mean in a world where horses leave in 26 and come home in 26, how are you supposed to drive on a big track, let's say, if you get a way 5th or 6th, which used to be great spots.
Title: Re: Worst Top Five Driver?
Post by: The Exporter on September 11, 2023, 08:49:26 AM
I don't disagree, Fuguzzi. You almost always need to be on or close to the lead. But, we have seen some sweet come from out of it drives from, Zeron, Dave Miller and Tim Teatrick.
Title: Re: Worst Top Five Driver?
Post by: Fuguzzi on September 11, 2023, 09:12:19 AM
I don't disagree, Fuguzzi. You almost always need to be on or close to the lead. But, we have seen some sweet come from out of it drives from, Zeron, Dave Miller and Tim Teatrick.
tmbz1Just a bit confused by what you are trying to say due to a couple of typos.
Title: Re: Worst Top Five Driver?
Post by: mgriffin on September 11, 2023, 09:44:46 AM
Worst Top 5 Driver? --- Need to define who is in the Top 5 first before you can comment.
Are we going by wins, money earned, UDRS or the eye test?

My Top 5 in no particular order: Zeron, Dunn, Tim Tetrick, Gingras & Dave Miller

That said, it seems strange to put a worst tag on guys that you consider in the Top 5?
They are there for a reason. How they got there, who they drive for and why they were picked should not matter.
Are we really going to penalize a guy like Gingras for driving for Burke? I am not a Gingras fan but you cannot dismiss the results.

The topic is very strange and does not make sense, but you got me to respond to it, so take that for what its worth.
Title: Re: Worst Top Five Driver?
Post by: Jackie Mo on September 12, 2023, 12:37:43 PM
By far and away Yannick Gingras.  Goes a 30.3 quarter today with Bythemissal and jambs up a race at Yonkers.  Then goes to SCD tonight and puts Beach Glass on the front and instead of pulling to the passing lane when he was damn near falling down he wipes everyone out!  That's amateur bush league bullshit and he's supposed to be HOF? Take away Burke & Takter and he has nothing.  He can't drive for anyone else or win anything big.  He's the only driver in history to be 99% dependent on two trainers.

Agree 100%--point and go , often overdrives and rarely works out a cerebral trip.

There are many here that love him, not sure why.
Title: Re: Worst Top Five Driver?
Post by: Fuguzzi on September 12, 2023, 12:42:43 PM
Agree 100%--point and go , often overdrives and rarely works out a cerebral trip.

There are many here that love him, not sure why.
Because he is on a trajectory to very well be the all time leading money earning driver upon retirement. That could be one reason. tremendous earnings per drive career wise as well.
Title: Re: Worst Top Five Driver?
Post by: Jackie Mo on September 12, 2023, 12:43:57 PM
How did he get?  It was really simple he was told how to drive and he did it no matter how bad he looked doing it.  He has NEVER driven with any strategy or how a certain horse needs to be driven.  He is under orders from Burke to get to the front at all costs and keep going.  Burke only has gunners and cowboys driving for him.  Probably why Kakaly didn't last because he can actually drive a horse with strategy and has a set of hands.  Yannick has one talent and that's not to care.  He could probably be a better driver but his style is one way.  If he can't make the front he panics and doesn't know what to do.  I would love to know the stats on his wins in stake races and the % of those wins where he was one front.  My guess is about 90%+ he's on the hammer!  Ronnie should put on Nicole Diconstanza - she weighs 90lbs and can't hold one so she would be great.  I hear she will blow you too so she's right up Ronnie's alley!   ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3

 tmbz1 tmbz1 tmbz1

i know nothing about the last two sentences but the rest of it is accurate.
Title: Re: Worst Top Five Driver?
Post by: Fuguzzi on September 12, 2023, 12:48:24 PM
tmbz1 tmbz1 tmbz1

i know nothing about the last two sentences but the rest of it is accurate.
Walter case jr.. Possibly the greatest half mile track driver that ever lived, right?  His strategy - BLAST OFF DOWN THE ROAD, or come first over throwing the lines. NO real strategy.
Herve Filion - Possibly the other greatest half mile track driver that ever lived - Greatest "strategic" driver I ever saw.

Same result for both - thousands of wins.

Point is, who needs strategy anymore - we all know the game on every track now is SPEED. Ctw, speed destroyed this sport. but that' s another debate.
Title: Re: Worst Top Five Driver?
Post by: theokodjak26 on September 12, 2023, 05:15:33 PM
Fug you forgot some of his other strategies Case used like kicking his horses and kicking his wife.
Title: Re: Worst Top Five Driver?
Post by: Fuguzzi on September 12, 2023, 05:53:13 PM
Absolutely. end of story.
Title: Re: Worst Top Five Driver?
Post by: Fuguzzi on September 12, 2023, 06:02:30 PM
Thats what i have been saying. Will go down as the best earnings driver ever quite possibly. Total and per start,. money, baby, money.
Title: Re: Worst Top Five Driver?
Post by: old guy on September 12, 2023, 06:32:02 PM
 tmbz1
Walter case jr.. Possibly the greatest half mile track driver that ever lived, right?  His strategy - BLAST OFF DOWN THE ROAD, or come first over throwing the lines. NO real strategy.
Herve Filion - Possibly the other greatest half mile track driver that ever lived - Greatest "strategic" driver I ever saw.

Same result for both - thousands of wins.

Point is, who needs strategy anymore - we all know the game on every track now is SPEED. Ctw, speed destroyed this sport. but that' s another debate.
Title: Re: Worst Top Five Driver?
Post by: Chooch on September 12, 2023, 07:06:39 PM
Sorry you lost your bet on him
you got that right! Awful over driving the bill shoemaker of harness racing
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