HORSEPLOP.COM
General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: theokodjak26 on September 20, 2023, 01:12:57 AM
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September 18 is worth reading regarding the state of the horse racing industry. One one hand we have Steve Crist on a podcast telling the world that the life ending falls Saratoga and on Preakness days were just one in a million events. In the other corner we have ex-owner Fred Abromowitz claiming horse racing is on life support, ready to fall into the history books like dog racing, jai alai and even bull fighting in Spain. Below is the link to the story:
https://paulickreport.com/news/ray-s-paddock/letter-to-the-editor-those-of-us-who-love-the-sport-should-panic/?fbclid=IwAR3kc4MhpHBySm-3oDiGnB_tvE9dWGLfxaFmRzlTtK2D2P1KLX4p8HC00eM
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Before I read the report, I'd like to add this two the raging debate about catastrophic leg injuries, death and euthanasia which is increasingly widespread throughout the Tbred industry. After the spate of injuries and death at Churchill and Saratoga this year, I spoke to a very recently retired female horse and racehorse vet I have known for many years and asked her to offer her opinion and in the process hopefully provide me with an answer. I know next to nothing about Tbred breeding, so having no personal opinion of the Dr.s opinion, I offer it now.....Having done pre-sale examination on hundreds if not thousands of Tbreds for racing and post racing careers such as jumping and dressage, she says that their front leg bone structure is much smaller than it has been in the past. She is talking about the circumference of the cannon bones just below the knee where it meets the lower carpal joints. She says growing up virtually all Tbred racehorse had a circumference of about 7 inches and some even 8 and she never recommended for racing buying a 2 year old that had less than 6. she believes they need this much bone and bone density to withstand the concussive shock of racing on the foreleg which stand at around 2000 pounds psi. She says a vast majority of young Tbreds now have a circumference of 5 inches and she believes this is directly attributable to "the European influence and blood lines being virtually bred out of American Tbred racehorses" She says the horses she sees today are smaller, lighter and more springy and fragile than those she examined pre 2000 and much smaller than their European counterparts today. So there, via a vet, is my 2 cents!
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^^^^ your 2 cents, or the vets thoughts?
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"via the vet" Totally her experiences and observation. Retired after almost 40 yrs. in practice
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Fug I found your vet friend’s summary a remarkable and clear reason as to what we have been seeing. Neither of us are equine doctors however what the vet says makes sense to me.This European breeding thing begs the question of why is it still being done? My next question is how does American breeding cleanse itself of the DNA from European horse DNA? Your report also further opens my eyes as to why down under horses don’t begin racing until they are 4-6 years old. They are letting their horses to fully grow which adds more strength to absorb the pounding their legs will take. Americans need to totally rethink 2 and 3 year old racing importance if they want to improve the health and safety of a horse.
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Ty Theo for your compliments. Glad you found it insightful. I am not sure but based on something you said, I may have confused you a bit. She was making the point that WE HAVE CLEANSED OURSELVES of the European bloodlines in Tbreds and there in lies the problem. The American Tbred as it has evolved the past generation or 2 is not standing up to the rigors of racing. Did you get that part? We need to somehow reintroduce old European bloodlines and start growing their version of Tbreds.
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Ah I got it right now. So all we need to do is reverse everything I said and solve that issue 11.wp
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Fug I found your vet friend’s summary a remarkable and clear reason as to what we have been seeing. Neither of us are equine doctors however what the vet says makes sense to me.This European breeding thing begs the question of why is it still being done? My next question is how does American breeding cleanse itself of the DNA from European horse DNA? Your report also further opens my eyes as to why down under horses don’t begin racing until they are 4-6 years old. They are letting their horses to fully grow which adds more strength to absorb the pounding their legs will take. Americans need to totally rethink 2 and 3 year old racing importance if they want to improve the health and safety of a horse.
No racing at 2 or 3 would severely damage an already crippled business. Imagine being a breeder or a buyer and having to pay for 2 or 3 years before any $ starts rolling in
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Captain I’ll ask you and everyone else my previous question. How do the down under owners and horsemen do it? They have the same challenges as Americans do correct? They just choose to bite the bullet ,I guess, for the sake of their horses and their investments. Your thoughts?
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Captain I’ll ask you and everyone else my previous question. How do the down under owners and horsemen do it? They have the same challenges as Americans do correct? They just choose to bite the bullet ,I guess, for the sake of their horses and their investments. Your thoughts?
Horses in Australia race at age 2 and 3
not sure which races you are watching
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Captain I’ll ask you and everyone else my previous question. How do the down under owners and horsemen do it? They have the same challenges as Americans do correct? They just choose to bite the bullet ,I guess, for the sake of their horses and their investments. Your thoughts?
Horses race at 2 down under. Those connections may choose to wait until 3 or 4.. Also, a training bill from Australia is much cheaper than 1 in the States.
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That's referred to as "the evolution of the breed". At some point, it was decided that lighter and faster was the ticket to success. Along the way these horses became more refined. Just like anything in life,the reduced mass in structure leads to reduced strength. The Thoroughbred bone structure is no longer able to tolerate the repetitive percussion. The recent investigation into catastrophic breakdowns has backed up the prior hypothesis. The analysis of the afore mentioned study was posted earlier in the month. You should be able to see it with a simple search for "Catastrophic Breakdowns in Thoroughbred Racehorses "
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Horses in Australia race at age 2 and 3
not sure which races you are watching
I’m sorry I was referring to down under harness horses. If they are racing at 2 and 3 years old in earnest that’s news to me.
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They race at 2 And 3 but down under and in Scandinavia the biggest money races are for aged horses instead of 2 and 3 year olds. In most of the world horse racing is still a sport not just a money grab like it has become in the US.
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Before I read the report, I'd like to add this two the raging debate about catastrophic leg injuries, death and euthanasia which is increasingly widespread throughout the Tbred industry. After the spate of injuries and death at Churchill and Saratoga this year, I spoke to a very recently retired female horse and racehorse vet I have known for many years and asked her to offer her opinion and in the process hopefully provide me with an answer. I know next to nothing about Tbred breeding, so having no personal opinion of the Dr.s opinion, I offer it now.....Having done pre-sale examination on hundreds if not thousands of Tbreds for racing and post racing careers such as jumping and dressage, she says that their front leg bone structure is much smaller than it has been in the past. She is talking about the circumference of the cannon bones just below the knee where it meets the lower carpal joints. She says growing up virtually all Tbred racehorse had a circumference of about 7 inches and some even 8 and she never recommended for racing buying a 2 year old that had less than 6. she believes they need this much bone and bone density to withstand the concussive shock of racing on the foreleg which stand at around 2000 pounds psi. She says a vast majority of young Tbreds now have a circumference of 5 inches and she believes this is directly attributable to "the European influence and blood lines being virtually bred out of American Tbred racehorses" She says the horses she sees today are smaller, lighter and more springy and fragile than those she examined pre 2000 and much smaller than their European counterparts today. So there, via a vet, is my 2 cents!
Thanks, that makes perfect sense
And everywhere else in the world they race on grass for the most part. Does anyone know what the numbers of fatalities on the turf are? I would imagine them to be like 1 5th of it. Of course, there are way more dirt races here so the numbers would be tilted due to that
Bottom line is they need to do away with dirt. This is going to keep happening to young horses who nowadays are running as soon as they are able to.
$$$$$ is why these horses are pushed beyond their limits.
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Good additional points, Timbo Thanks
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From the Paulick report above.
PERFECTLY STATED:
"I question how much can be done to significantly minimize the risks to an 1,100-pound animal running 40 miles an hour, exerting maximum effort, on legs as thin as one's wrist."
However, he forgot "while carrying a jockey on his back" and "with one leg leading instead of a pair of strong thick boned legs hitting the ground at the same time."
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tmbz1