HORSEPLOP.COM
General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: Balmoral buzz on October 15, 2023, 03:57:28 PM
-
I will probably get shit for starting this thread but how about when a trainer suddenly gets “hot” and starts winning races at a record clip. Then to make it worse, that hot trainer comes up with a positive test.
How do you horseploppers explain the owners and scumbags running to employ said cheating trainer knowing full well that something is going on in that barn? I mean the days of owners saying well I don’t know what my trainer is doing but I’m happy because he makes me money are over!!! This is 2023 horseploppers, let’s call out these owners who are accountable for employing a trainer who they know full well is a druggie and animal abuser.
Just think about this, if the owners took a stand, they could clean this game up overnight. Owners are the ones who are killing this game more then the cheating horsemen.
-
I will probably get shit for starting this thread but how about when a trainer suddenly gets “hot” and starts winning races at a record clip. Then to make it worse, that hot trainer comes up with a positive test.
How do you horseploppers explain the owners and scumbags running to employ said cheating trainer knowing full well that something is going on in that barn? I mean the days of owners saying well I don’t know what my trainer is doing but I’m happy because he makes me money are over!!! This is 2023 horseploppers, let’s call out these owners who are accountable for employing a trainer who they know full well is a druggie and animal abuser.
Just think about this, if the owners took a stand, they could clean this game up overnight. Owners are the ones who are killing this game more then the cheating horsemen.
I agree. If it wasn’t for the owners supporting them they would be working at McDonald’s. If they ever want to clean up the sport they need to start with the owners
-
What about the owner/trainers
-
What about the owner/trainers
If they never got any new owners they would eventually bust out exactly like they started. We’re talking bust outs who most likely didn’t graduate high school so they have no money management or budgeting skills. Leave the owner/trainers alone long enough and they’ll eventually bust out.
-
Take the power back. Join the USTA and get a bunch of people to join with you and nominate yourself for president. Get elected in and start cleaning house and making criminal referrals for all these enablers (racetracks execs are complicit as well) who have swept things under the rug and defend horse druggers/abusers.
Fine them so severely they will be financially ruined.
-
I am not disagreeing with a single word any of my friends on here are saying about the worst of the worst scumbag cheaters ( trainer ), but why stop at the owners? I don't see, nor have I ever seen a top driver or any driver for that matter, refuse a drive from a notorious trainer on principal or to make a statement. In fact they want all those drives. As if they don't know the difference when their horse is running off the screen. every driver wants "power". Never saw Napolitano refuse an Oakes horse, or case a Guarino horse, and so on. As Brennan said to a guy right in front of me, "When they find out what Pena's using, I'm all done"
-
Throwing out the owners will never happen. You can always find new drivers and trainers but finding new owners who own big stables and breed is not going to happen. But if this thought ever happened the sport is done, over and out for good.
-
It's catch -22...The real big owners/investors/buyers Know..You're damn right! Everybody knows it. Crawfords for a 'PRIME' [apologies Deion Saunders] example. But Take away those type's $$ and where are you?
-
Well many of our top owners are in their 60s, 70s and beyond now. Old blood and slot parlors or it would have died out 20 years ago.
-
There are plenty of big$$ owners that haven’t joined the dark side. Many have cut back their involvement or just plain got out because they were not willing to cheat to win
-
I've found over the years that in alot of cases,those kind of owners have the same outlook as the trainer when it comes to "teaching horses lessons " I knew an owner who had a 10k claimer who won 8 in a row prior to bowing a tendon.He had the horse insured so he had the trainer swim him until he went under,with Racquet balls in his nostrils! Money and greed make a disgusting cocktail!
-
What did the authorities say or do?
-
Authorities were never made aware of it.The same duo also plugged one into the wash bay socket on the grounds! When you investigate insurance fraud in the racing industry,you will be too sick to finish reading all you discover! SMH
-
I will probably get shit for starting this thread but how about when a trainer suddenly gets “hot” and starts winning races at a record clip. Then to make it worse, that hot trainer comes up with a positive test.
How do you horseploppers explain the owners and scumbags running to employ said cheating trainer knowing full well that something is going on in that barn? I mean the days of owners saying well I don’t know what my trainer is doing but I’m happy because he makes me money are over!!! This is 2023 horseploppers, let’s call out these owners who are accountable for employing a trainer who they know full well is a druggie and animal abuser.
Just think about this, if the owners took a stand, they could clean this game up overnight. Owners are the ones who are killing this game more then the cheating horsemen.
Larry are you pointing out a few farm owners by any chance? ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
-
I will probably get shit for starting this thread but how about when a trainer suddenly gets “hot” and starts winning races at a record clip. Then to make it worse, that hot trainer comes up with a positive test.
How do you horseploppers explain the owners and scumbags running to employ said cheating trainer knowing full well that something is going on in that barn? I mean the days of owners saying well I don’t know what my trainer is doing but I’m happy because he makes me money are over!!! This is 2023 horseploppers, let’s call out these owners who are accountable for employing a trainer who they know full well is a druggie and animal abuser.
Just think about this, if the owners took a stand, they could clean this game up overnight. Owners are the ones who are killing this game more then the cheating horsemen.
You're right on Larry. Some of these owners just bounce from one "hot" trainer to the next. They know their horses are being gassed. This bullshit that owners don't know what their trainers are doing is a joke.
-
I don't think you need to toss the owners. They are part of the problem. No real regulatory or testing is where it starts.
Allard came from Canada with a reputation of cheating. I believe they told him to leave. Rene came to the US & took it to the next level.
Pelling had the milkshake & it wasn't a secret. He's back after a mysteriously leaving the country. Told to leave?
Takter caught bringing syringes to Canada. Rumors of another hot test at the Meadowlands & mysteriously retires. Was Jimmy told too?
Pena came from Cal Expo where he was average. Lou became the leading trainer wherever he raced. A drunk too.
Mickey Burke couldn't win a race. Then he becomes a top trainer. He also retires to most likely protect Ron.
Ron learned from his father who had show horses. He's the best ever...by far...without training them. Not likely!
Nick Surick also couldn't win a race & boom one day is a top trainer.
Bongiorno was a TV host at the Meadowlands. No learning curve & possibly the best start of any trainer's career.
I could go on all day. The point is real investigative work would expose all of them. We saw what happened with the FBI. It is a shame how far the game i loved has fallen.
The penalties for doping horses should be jail...for animal abuse. More jail time for race fixing too, & so on & so on....
-
I've found over the years that in alot of cases,those kind of owners have the same outlook as the trainer when it comes to "teaching horses lessons " I knew an owner who had a 10k claimer who won 8 in a row prior to bowing a tendon.He had the horse insured so he had the trainer swim him until he went under,with Racquet balls in his nostrils! Money and greed make a disgusting cocktail!
This is absolutely unconscionable. Also, fraud.
-
Let's name some owners that seem to only hire known drug user trainers in your circuit.
Delaware---PT stable(Absolutely) Few others but for sure this one to start!
-
Let's name some owners that seem to only hire known drug user trainers in your circuit.
Delaware---PT stable(Absolutely) Few others but for sure this one to start!
But who is PT Stable?
-
I don't think you need to toss the owners. They are part of the problem. No real regulatory or testing is where it starts.
Allard came from Canada with a reputation of cheating. I believe they told him to leave. Rene came to the US & took it to the next level.
Pelling had the milkshake & it wasn't a secret. He's back after a mysteriously leaving the country. Told to leave?
Takter caught bringing syringes to Canada. Rumors of another hot test at the Meadowlands & mysteriously retires. Was Jimmy told too?
Pena came from Cal Expo where he was average. Lou became the leading trainer wherever he raced. A drunk too.
Mickey Burke couldn't win a race. Then he becomes a top trainer. He also retires to most likely protect Ron.
Ron learned from his father who had show horses. He's the best ever...by far...without training them. Not likely!
Nick Surick also couldn't win a race & boom one day is a top trainer.
WELL SAID! The investigation only touched on a few, The criminals are still out doing what they do, in front of us all.
Bongiorno was a TV host at the Meadowlands. No learning curve & possibly the best start of any trainer's career.
I could go on all day. The point is real investigative work would expose all of them. We saw what happened with the FBI. It is a shame how far the game i loved has fallen.
The penalties for doping horses should be jail...for animal abuse. More jail time for race fixing too, & so on & so on....
-
Let's name some owners that seem to only hire known drug user trainers in your circuit.
Delaware---PT stable(Absolutely) Few others but for sure this one to start!
Faraldough is the biggest snake of them all
-
Donald McRae and Kalpideo Sighn
-
Mac Nicol and West Wins Stable a close 2nd
-
Hmmm I wonder if there was any one veterinary practice that worked for a majority of those trainers/owners
-
But who is PT Stable?
Pat Tortorello
-
There are plenty of big$$ owners that haven’t joined the dark side. Many have cut back their involvement or just plain got out because they were not willing to cheat to win
For every “honest” who got out or cut back, I’ll give you 5 new ones who run to the cheaters all because of their greed for money. I’m not racist or singling out any one race or ethnicity here but I will admit a lot of the big money owners who employ the cheats are Jewish. Just saying........
-
Marty Engle in Chicago
Odds on racing
Bottom line racing
Let it ride racing
-
You guys are hilarious.
How bout we catch the cheaters instead?
-
You guys are hilarious.
How bout we catch the cheaters instead?
Who are the "Cheaters"? Owners who pay the trainers to "cheat" for them? Or trainers who pay to "cheat"(drug) so the owners buy more horses for them thus more money for the trainers or maybe the drivers who cheats by setting up horses to fail so when they're ready to win so all three can make more money? Who exactly is the "Cheaters"?
-
For every “honest” who got out or cut back, I’ll give you 5 new ones who run to the cheaters all because of their greed for money. I’m not racist or singling out any one race or ethnicity here but I will admit a lot of the big money owners who employ the cheats are Jewish. Just saying........
Yeah you are “just saying”. How much money did you send Hamas and Hezbollah recently?
-
When the anti - Semitic slime on here raise their head, I start looking around for someone to punch. Makes me sick to my stomach and enraged.
-
Donald McRae and Kalpideo Sighn
Absolutely look who they employ
Also Crawford farms , BradleyGrant , Aron Waxman and Louis Roy employ trainers with questionable histories
-
Absolutely look who they employ
Also Crawford farms , BradleyGrant , Aron Waxman and Louis Roy employ trainers with questionable histories
Right.
That Bradley Grant. Been with Alagna and Moreau for years.
And that sneaky Roy, has horses with Eric Nadeau (who?) for the most part.
How about we clean up and punish the juice monkeys. You guys are jealous as fuck because guys like Grant can AFFORD to go wherever they like.
-
Absolutely look who they employ
Also Crawford farms , BradleyGrant , Aron Waxman and Louis Roy employ trainers with questionable histories
-
Right.
That Bradley Grant. Been with Alagna and Moreau for years.
And that sneaky Roy, has horses with Eric Nadeau (who?) for the most part.
How about we clean up and punish the juice monkeys. You guys are jealous as fuck because guys like Grant can AFFORD to go wherever they like.
Alagna and Moreau have numerous positive tests each , you proved the point
As for envy of Grant's inherited fortune yes who would not want an abundance of wealth without having to earn it
-
Alagna and Moreau have numerous positive tests each , you proved the point
As for envy of Grant's inherited fortune yes who would not want an abundance of wealth without having to earn it
Trump like wealth?
-
For every “honest” who got out or cut back, I’ll give you 5 new ones who run to the cheaters all because of their greed for money. I’m not racist or singling out any one race or ethnicity here but I will admit a lot of the big money owners who employ the cheats are Jewish. Just saying........
If your not a racist why would you say it then?
-
I don't think you need to toss the owners. They are part of the problem. No real regulatory or testing is where it starts.
Allard came from Canada with a reputation of cheating. I believe they told him to leave. Rene came to the US & took it to the next level.
Pelling had the milkshake & it wasn't a secret. He's back after a mysteriously leaving the country. Told to leave?
Takter caught bringing syringes to Canada. Rumors of another hot test at the Meadowlands & mysteriously retires. Was Jimmy told too?
Pena came from Cal Expo where he was average. Lou became the leading trainer wherever he raced. A drunk too.
Mickey Burke couldn't win a race. Then he becomes a top trainer. He also retires to most likely protect Ron.
Ron learned from his father who had show horses. He's the best ever...by far...without training them. Not likely!
Nick Surick also couldn't win a race & boom one day is a top trainer.
Bongiorno was a TV host at the Meadowlands. No learning curve & possibly the best start of any trainer's career.
I could go on all day. The point is real investigative work would expose all of them. We saw what happened with the FBI. It is a shame how far the game i loved has fallen.
The penalties for doping horses should be jail...for animal abuse. More jail time for race fixing too, & so on & so on....
MAN ARE YOU ON POINT! tmbz1
-
Here, here
-
Who are the "Cheaters"? Owners who pay the trainers to "cheat" for them? Or trainers who pay to "cheat"(drug) so the owners buy more horses for them thus more money for the trainers or maybe the drivers who cheats by setting up horses to fail so when they're ready to win so all three can make more money? Who exactly is the "Cheaters"?
I WILL PROBABLY GET CRUCIFIED FOR SAYING THIS BUT HERE GOES. I CURRENTLY OWN 4 HORSES-- 2 IN PA, 1 IN NEW JERSEY AND 1 IN INDIANA. KIRBYS QUESTION IS A VERY VALID ONE THAT NEEDS TO BE ANSWERED HONESTLY. I DO NOT CONSIDER MYSELF A CHEATING OWNER BECAUSE I'VE ALWAYS TRIED TO DO SHIT THE RIGHT WAY AS I WAS RAISED THAT WAY. I WAS A TEENAGE FAN AND THEN ONE OF MY BEST FRIENDS FROM COLLEGE DRAGGED ME INTO A PARTNERSHIP AND I FELL IN LOVE WITH OWNING SINCE 1989. I'VE SEEN IT ALL PRETTY MUCH. BUT TO ANSWER KIRBYS QUESTION, I WAS WITH THE SAME TRAINER WHO FOR THE MOST PART WAS A STRAIGHT SHOOTER BUT I GOT TIRED OF GETTING MY ASS KICKED BY THE OTHER JUICE TRAINERS EVERY WEEK. I HAD TO DO SOMETHING AND I HAD TWO CHOICES. EITHER GET OUT OF THE BUSINESS COMPLETLY WHICH IS WHAT MY PARTNER DID OR STILL OWN AND HIRE ONE OF THE MANY CHEATING JUICE TRAINERS AT EACH TRACK SO I COULD BE ON THE SAME PLAYING FIELD WITH THEM. I WAS LOSING MY ASS AND WOULD OF GONE BROKE SO I CHOOSE THE LATTER. IN MY OPINION, ITS THE TRAINERS WHO START OUT AS THE CHEATS (DRUGS, ABUSE, ELECTROCUTION, ETC) AND I GUESS WE OWNERS BECOME CHEATS AS WELL BECAUSE OF WHAT WE HAVE TO DO TO SURVIVE IN THE BUSINESS. I'LL APOLOGIZE RIGHT NOW TO ALL OF MY FRIENDS IN THIS BUSINESS BUT WE OWNERS HAVE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR ENABLING THE CHEATING TRAINERS TO THRIVE. I'M PRETTY SURE WITHOUT US, THEY COULDNT CHEAT AT THE LEVEL THEY DO AND WIN RACES LEFT AND RIGHT LIKE THE TOP TRAINERS AT EVERY TRACK DO. I'M A SMALL TIME GUY BUT I'M BEING HONEST, I HAD TO DO WHAT I HAD TO DO.
-
You do not deserve to be crucified. I was involved with a high percentage trainer and i knew intuitively his percentage was the kind that suggests he was "using something" To this day, i have no idea what it was or what he was "doing". Once, a PJ even called me into his office and started yelling about how he gets so many complaints from the public about this guy and kept asking what the hell he is using/doing. I told him, sorry, i have no idea. intuitively, I knew something was wrong, but yeah it's hard to give up winning. I can live with myself.
Now if I knew of abuse akin to the "Allard Death Camp" That's a whole different story. I ran into that situation ponce in my life and did the right thing.
-
You do not deserve to be crucified. I was involved with a high percentage trainer and i knew intuitively his percentage was the kind that suggests he was "using something" To this day, i have no idea what it was or what he was "doing". Once, a PJ even called me into his office and started yelling about how he gets so many complaints from the public about this guy and kept asking what the hell he is using/doing. I told him, sorry, i have no idea. intuitively, I knew something was wrong, but yeah it's hard to give up winning. I can live with myself.
Now if I knew of abuse akin to the "Allard Death Camp" That's a whole different story. I ran into that situation ponce in my life and did the right thing.
THANK YOU MR FUGUZZI.
-
tmbz1
-
I WILL PROBABLY GET CRUCIFIED FOR SAYING THIS BUT HERE GOES. I CURRENTLY OWN 4 HORSES-- 2 IN PA, 1 IN NEW JERSEY AND 1 IN INDIANA. KIRBYS QUESTION IS A VERY VALID ONE THAT NEEDS TO BE ANSWERED HONESTLY. I DO NOT CONSIDER MYSELF A CHEATING OWNER BECAUSE I'VE ALWAYS TRIED TO DO SHIT THE RIGHT WAY AS I WAS RAISED THAT WAY. I WAS A TEENAGE FAN AND THEN ONE OF MY BEST FRIENDS FROM COLLEGE DRAGGED ME INTO A PARTNERSHIP AND I FELL IN LOVE WITH OWNING SINCE 1989. I'VE SEEN IT ALL PRETTY MUCH. BUT TO ANSWER KIRBYS QUESTION, I WAS WITH THE SAME TRAINER WHO FOR THE MOST PART WAS A STRAIGHT SHOOTER BUT I GOT TIRED OF GETTING MY ASS KICKED BY THE OTHER JUICE TRAINERS EVERY WEEK. I HAD TO DO SOMETHING AND I HAD TWO CHOICES. EITHER GET OUT OF THE BUSINESS COMPLETLY WHICH IS WHAT MY PARTNER DID OR STILL OWN AND HIRE ONE OF THE MANY CHEATING JUICE TRAINERS AT EACH TRACK SO I COULD BE ON THE SAME PLAYING FIELD WITH THEM. I WAS LOSING MY ASS AND WOULD OF GONE BROKE SO I CHOOSE THE LATTER. IN MY OPINION, ITS THE TRAINERS WHO START OUT AS THE CHEATS (DRUGS, ABUSE, ELECTROCUTION, ETC) AND I GUESS WE OWNERS BECOME CHEATS AS WELL BECAUSE OF WHAT WE HAVE TO DO TO SURVIVE IN THE BUSINESS. I'LL APOLOGIZE RIGHT NOW TO ALL OF MY FRIENDS IN THIS BUSINESS BUT WE OWNERS HAVE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR ENABLING THE CHEATING TRAINERS TO THRIVE. I'M PRETTY SURE WITHOUT US, THEY COULDNT CHEAT AT THE LEVEL THEY DO AND WIN RACES LEFT AND RIGHT LIKE THE TOP TRAINERS AT EVERY TRACK DO. I'M A SMALL TIME GUY BUT I'M BEING HONEST, I HAD TO DO WHAT I HAD TO DO.
Sorry you are part of the problem. There are plenty of clean trainers out there that can win races. Maybe not all the time. But look at last year’s Hambo and Oaks. You don’t have to go the cheating route that is your decision and you should suffer the consequences
-
Hambo and Oaks? WTH? We are talking about night in and night out overnight racing. I am not sure what you guys think is going on out there. There is cheating and then there is CHEATING and then there is CHEATING
How many horses do you really think are racing straight outta the feed tub? everybody is using something to try and get an edge and compete.
yes, when i raced I tubed my horses once it exploded on the scene. I used Winstrol, baking soda and distilled water 4 hours out. the entire backstretch was tubing. Grasso ran around in his white Mitsubishi like a chicken with his head cut off. You tubed or you lost. Some people were better at it than others. A lot of guys tried to do it themselves and fucked up some horses. many people put all kinds of weird shit in the mix to try to outdo the next guy.
When the BlackBox/TCO 2 test came out it was back to the drawing board for many and trying to beat it for some and getting caught for others.
Lotta self righteous, sanctimonious blather on here.
Entire HOF is filled with race fixers, chemists, mob controlled characters and lowlifes. But still I love it. It's harness racing and the guys who control are the guys who cash and they often pay the smallest penalty - the drivers.
-
i know a lot of the guys chirping about the cheaters on here definitely factored that into their handicapping and betting and not one said, I know this horse is a souped up "only" in my pick hailing from a 405 trainer/driver combo, but i wont use him cause he is a cheater handing out misbranded drugs. I will use other horses so i can feel better about myself. What BS
-
40% tmbz1
-
Hambo and Oaks? WTH? We are talking about night in and night out overnight racing. I am not sure what you guys think is going on out there. There is cheating and then there is CHEATING and then there is CHEATING
How many horses do you really think are racing straight outta the feed tub? everybody is using something to try and get an edge and compete.
yes, when i raced I tubed my horses once it exploded on the scene. I used Winstrol, baking soda and distilled water 4 hours out. the entire backstretch was tubing. Grasso ran around in his white Mitsubishi like a chicken with his head cut off. You tubed or you lost. Some people were better at it than others. A lot of guys tried to do it themselves and fucked up some horses. many people put all kinds of weird shit in the mix to try to outdo the next guy.
When the BlackBox/TCO 2 test came out it was back to the drawing board for many and trying to beat it for some and getting caught for others.
Lotta self righteous, sanctimonious blather on here.
Entire HOF is filled with race fixers, chemists, mob controlled characters and lowlifes. But still I love it. It's harness racing and the guys who control are the guys who cash and they often pay the smallest penalty - the drivers.
Point is good horseman don’t have to resort to cheating even at the highest level of the sport. Mostly bottom feeders cheat to make themselves look better
-
Restrict that to high class trotters with European trainers operating on a level we can't comprehend.
As for the pacers, I know of several top, top echelon 3 year olds who were loaded out their eyeballs or were suspected of being and who hailed from some very questionable outfits. I'll bet you do too
-
How about the state vet that would text there high end clients{trainers} and tell them what races they were testing with the black box..... Example...HEY THEY ARE TESTING the double and races 4-6-7-10-11 What about that low life yuppie scum bag
-
I knew a guy years ago at Pocono Downs that would charge 10 bucks to tube your horse. He would show up with a gastric tube, funnel and a twitch. Trainer would provide the shake. He did quite well.
-
How about the state vet that would text there high end clients{trainers} and tell them what races they were testing with the black box..... Example...HEY THEY ARE TESTING the double and races 4-6-7-10-11 What about that low life yuppie scum bag
I know for a fact that when Joe Guarino had his resurgence mid 90s at YR with Case doing most of the driving, that Guarino had a contact inside the Cornell trailer that would tell him what they would be tested for that particular evening. I also know he would pre-race some on the old back track very close to report time and for some reason would sometimes warm his horses up back there and never see the track before it was time to race. Don't know why or how he got away with it.
-
I know for a fact that when Joe Guarino had his resurgence mid 90s at YR with Case doing most of the driving, that Guarino had a contact inside the Cornell trailer that would tell him what they would be tested for that particular evening. I also know he would pre-race some on the old back track very close to report time and for some reason would sometimes warm his horses up back there and never see the track before it was time to race. Don't know why or how he got away with it.
Is Joe still alive?
-
I honestly don't know. Joe would be around 71 or 72 now. last i heard he was in Florida and had gotten involved in buying storage units on speculation like they do on that TV show. Admittedly that was several years ago and i have lost tabs.
-
I guess in 2007 when Joe was knocked out of Monti by Cliff Erlich along with Ross Cohen, Tommy Guido and Timmy Case and many others ( milkshakes and Epo ), that was pretty much the end for Joe, very sad that Timmy took his life over it. Very sad.
-
Hambo and Oaks? WTH? We are talking about night in and night out overnight racing. I am not sure what you guys think is going on out there. There is cheating and then there is CHEATING and then there is CHEATING
How many horses do you really think are racing straight outta the feed tub? everybody is using something to try and get an edge and compete.
yes, when i raced I tubed my horses once it exploded on the scene. I used Winstrol, baking soda and distilled water 4 hours out. the entire backstretch was tubing. Grasso ran around in his white Mitsubishi like a chicken with his head cut off. You tubed or you lost. Some people were better at it than others. A lot of guys tried to do it themselves and fucked up some horses. many people put all kinds of weird shit in the mix to try to outdo the next guy.
When the BlackBox/TCO 2 test came out it was back to the drawing board for many and trying to beat it for some and getting caught for others.
Lotta self righteous, sanctimonious blather on here.
Entire HOF is filled with race fixers, chemists, mob controlled characters and lowlifes. But still I love it. It's harness racing and the guys who control are the guys who cash and they often pay the smallest penalty - the drivers.
Excellent post period. Thank you Fugman
-
And for the record I’m not a perfect person but I would never abuse an animal or child and furthermore will fuck up anyone who I see doing it.
-
Same here and that's how it should be for all men! And TY, Larry!
-
Are you not the guy who just printed you used milkshakes and other ways of trying to get an edge? In my book , you can't have it both ways. You can't be the judge of your cheating and the level you feel comfortable with, and through the otherside of you mouth claim your outrage of others.
In my book, it was a tragedy for Tim Case. A guy who for years would tell every publication or other form of interview, it was hard work and dedication that set him apart from the others. I have great empathy for his family, zero feelings for his suicide. I guess he could not live with himself either.
How about all the other guys who busted their ass and sacrificed every day. There are hundreds of owners and trainer who got robbed every time they drew into a race these mutts were in. How about the horses? Were they willing or just a subject of abuse? How about the poor sapp that buys one of these junkies in a sale and cant beat a fat man next week?
No, fuck Case Guarino, Case , Cohen , Guido and a couple dozen more, just like them.
-
Are you not the guy who just printed you used milkshakes and other ways of trying to get an edge? In my book , you can't have it both ways. You can't be the judge of your cheating and the level you feel comfortable with, and through the otherside of you mouth claim your outrage of others.
In my book, it was a tragedy for Tim Case. A guy who for years would tell every publication or other form of interview, it was hard work and dedication that set him apart from the others. I have great empathy for his family, zero feelings for his suicide. I guess he could not live with himself either.
How about all the other guys who busted their ass and sacrificed every day. There are hundreds of owners and trainer who got robbed every time they drew into a race these mutts were in. How about the horses? Were they willing or just a subject of abuse? How about the poor sapp that buys one of these junkies in a sale and cant beat a fat man next week?
No, fuck Case Guarino, Case , Cohen , Guido and a couple dozen more, just like them.
Agree tmbz1 Either you cheat or you don't. Fuggin cheater.
-
I have never expressed outrage at anyone. Read everything I say carefully. Yes, I tubed horses. It was that or leave the business in those days. At least half of every field was tubed. It was purely adapt or die. if you want to call it cheating, so be it. I never, ever used Epogen and got burned on 2 claims by horses crashing off it. ok, so be it. Between Epogen/Araseot and the tube, if you were to suspend everyone who was using either or both and God knows what else, you would have closed down the entire industry. i have never tried to have things both ways. I have never abused any animal. I was heavy into leg care, jogged long, trained light. I rarely injected a joint, believed "jugs" were a waste of money, never fed alfalfa cubes, never told drivers how to drive. I never had a pre race cloudy or a post race positive, nor did I ever get suspended. I can put my head on the pillow at night.
Nothing is racing clean out of the feed tub. it is, essentially impossible. Stop the sanctimony.
Abuse, on the other hand is never tolerable. You've read my posts - you know what i saw as a groom.
Btw, exporter, I respect whjat you post a lot
-
One other thing, bribing or banging some vet tech to find out what's being tested for and then drugging accordingly is not "getting an edge", it is conspiracy and a crime. At THAT, I did express outrage. That stuffs plain bull shit. No one deserves that edge.
-
One other thing, bribing or banging some vet tech to find out what's being tested for and then drugging accordingly is not "getting an edge", it is conspiracy and a crime. At THAT, I did express outrage. That stuffs plain bull shit. No one deserves that edge.
and if its not conspiracy, its definitely soliciting prostitution of a different payment method. tmbz1
-
I am 100% aware of how racing operated in those days. People who raced clean, no matter what there level of skill or how sharp they were, batted .200 to maybe .250.
Most raced in condition races and when their stead got down to NW $2,000 L5, they drew well and jogged. Then another 6-8 weeks of 4th and 5th place checks before they go down in class top win or be second. No matter how talented a horse person you are , you are a .200 trainer in these circumstances.
You could drop in a claimer. Not wanting to lose him but looking to be more aggressive in his placement, you tag him for $10K more than he is worth. No takers. Nobody makes a dime but, you now fit NW of $2K again. If you tagged him at the value he has been performing at, there were 10 sharks, swimming the blood stained waters of the claiming box. Either way you go bust if you continue to play. One of those creeps would draw the lucky pill and in 2 weeks with some EPO, soda and breathing meds, he wins and the driver takes almost a 1/2 mile to pull him up. Double jumps the next start and the classy 10yr. old shaves 2 seconds off his lifetime mark.
Now, the former trainer looks to be incompetent or at the least, a guy that time has passed by. The owner feels like a complete schmuck and finds a new way to get his action fix.
This shit went on right until the VLT laws passed. Everyone knew harness racing had less integrity than, wrestling and roller derby. Hell, Boxing had more going for it. That was until the MMA gave the pugilistic fan an alternative. When a politician in NY was on the outs, his peers and pundits would "you will be seeing him on a bench at Yonkers Trots, next.
To give any of these low life gutless creeps any remembrance other than what they excelled at
cheating, is a great travesty of fairness to the straight guys.
-
I know for a fact that when Joe Guarino had his resurgence mid 90s at YR with Case doing most of the driving, that Guarino had a contact inside the Cornell trailer that would tell him what they would be tested for that particular evening. I also know he would pre-race some on the old back track very close to report time and for some reason would sometimes warm his horses up back there and never see the track before it was time to race. Don't know why or how he got away with it.
Exactly Fuguzzi there were mutable trainers given the okay
-
I am 100% aware of how racing operated in those days. People who raced clean, no matter what there level of skill or how sharp they were, batted .200 to maybe .250.
Most raced in condition races and when their stead got down to NW $2,000 L5, they drew well and jogged. Then another 6-8 weeks of 4th and 5th place checks before they go down in class top win or be second. No matter how talented a horse person you are , you are a .200 trainer in these circumstances.
You could drop in a claimer. Not wanting to lose him but looking to be more aggressive in his placement, you tag him for $10K more than he is worth. No takers. Nobody makes a dime but, you now fit NW of $2K again. If you tagged him at the value he has been performing at, there were 10 sharks, swimming the blood stained waters of the claiming box. Either way you go bust if you continue to play. One of those creeps would draw the lucky pill and in 2 weeks with some EPO, soda and breathing meds, he wins and the driver takes almost a 1/2 mile to pull him up. Double jumps the next start and the classy 10yr. old shaves 2 seconds off his lifetime mark.
Now, the former trainer looks to be incompetent or at the least, a guy that time has passed by. The owner feels like a complete schmuck and finds a new way to get his action fix.
This shit went on right until the VLT laws passed. Everyone knew harness racing had less integrity than, wrestling and roller derby. Hell, Boxing had more going for it. That was until the MMA gave the pugilistic fan an alternative. When a politician in NY was on the outs, his peers and pundits would "you will be seeing him on a bench at Yonkers Trots, next.
To give any of these low life gutless creeps any remembrance other than what they excelled at
cheating, is a great travesty of fairness to the straight guys.
You put everything perfectly! There were dozens like me. Shaking our heads at horses running off the screen, 11 year olds taking lifetime marks and trainers, often that you didn't even hear of the year before, suddenly having full barns and winning at a 40% clip. we never indulged in the designer cocktails, Gaspar's "stuff" or the pain blockers and mind control drugs "we heard some guys used" and at first NY did everything it could to hamstring us by not allowing us to use lasix, like the rest of the world, we never used anabolic steroids or HGH, so we just cheated on the fringe trying to make a dent into the barns that were kicking our ass. We always knew who the serious scumbags were and frowned when they kept getting re-lisenced over and over again. ( some were even racing last night at YR ). I guess time heals all wounds. Personally, I never believed tubing a horse was a serious infraction or abuse. ( all natural ingredients, assumed ) In fact, I feel it is more abusive to have the animal tied up and walking as his muscles stiffen as he burns thru lactic acid the last 1/8th. Everybody loses that way, including the bettor.
Likw I said I know you are the real deal, Exporter and know you know the drill.
-
Exactly Fuguzzi there were mutable trainers given the okay
Flis/Smutz LaPoff/Marino?
-
What are you supposed to do if you want to get back into the game as an owner and buy or claim something in the 50K range. Almost every trainer that has a horse racing worth 50k is batting 300 plus. What are you gonna do, get one and give it to someone at 160? Of course not -- no one is in it to lose money. So what's an owner (new or old) suppose to do?
-
Like Hymen Roth said to Michael Corleone, "This is the business we've chosen" tmbz1
You hit it, Jidge
-
Nobody had the balls to turn in the cheats. Much easier to to cheat as well. No excuse for that. Must be a man of faith.
-
Flis/Smutz LaPoff/Marino?
yep and a few others!
-
I am 100% aware of how racing operated in those days. People who raced clean, no matter what there level of skill or how sharp they were, batted .200 to maybe .250.
Most raced in condition races and when their stead got down to NW $2,000 L5, they drew well and jogged. Then another 6-8 weeks of 4th and 5th place checks before they go down in class top win or be second. No matter how talented a horse person you are , you are a .200 trainer in these circumstances.
You could drop in a claimer. Not wanting to lose him but looking to be more aggressive in his placement, you tag him for $10K more than he is worth. No takers. Nobody makes a dime but, you now fit NW of $2K again. If you tagged him at the value he has been performing at, there were 10 sharks, swimming the blood stained waters of the claiming box. Either way you go bust if you continue to play. One of those creeps would draw the lucky pill and in 2 weeks with some EPO, soda and breathing meds, he wins and the driver takes almost a 1/2 mile to pull him up. Double jumps the next start and the classy 10yr. old shaves 2 seconds off his lifetime mark.
Now, the former trainer looks to be incompetent or at the least, a guy that time has passed by. The owner feels like a complete schmuck and finds a new way to get his action fix.
This shit went on right until the VLT laws passed. Everyone knew harness racing had less integrity than, wrestling and roller derby. Hell, Boxing had more going for it. That was until the MMA gave the pugilistic fan an alternative. When a politician in NY was on the outs, his peers and pundits would "you will be seeing him on a bench at Yonkers Trots, next.
To give any of these low life gutless creeps any remembrance other than what they excelled at
cheating, is a great travesty of fairness to the straight guys.
This is probably the best post Ive ever read on the Plop-or anywhere for that matter--sums up the State of the Industry for the most part very well-facts about the main problem--the real cheats--and why they need to be in jail.
Chris Ryder--got out of the "cheat" game-by not racing claimers-as every time he got one going well-the low life cheaters would claim it . Casie Coleman--looks like the same thing--Linda Toscano, Pelling,Daley etc-no one wants to play the game where these crooks get a hold of your horse. Burke still races claimers--mainly because he has Weaver helping him-the man is a genius at finding value horses--and knows the value of a horse better than the owners or even the trainer. Racing would be better off-having all kinds of condition races where even the non juicers can race and make a steady income. Thats why Im partial to grading horses v accurately-better than trackmaster does(full of errors)--and use that for the future of the sport.
-
What are you supposed to do if you want to get back into the game as an owner and buy or claim something in the 50K range. Almost every trainer that has a horse racing worth 50k is batting 300 plus. What are you gonna do, get one and give it to someone at 160? Of course not -- no one is in it to lose money. So what's an owner (new or old) suppose to do?
IF YOU WANT TO BE IN THE GAME THEN YOU ARE FORCED TO CHEAT. THERE IS NO WAY LIKE YOU SAID TO MAKE MONEY ANY OTHER WAY. THATS WHY I BELEIVE IN 5-10 YEARS THERE WILL BE NO MORE HARNESS RACING. I JUST WISH THEY WOULD ELIMINATE ALL OF THE CASINO MONEY AND MAKE US RACE FOR WHATEVER WE GENERATE. IT WOULD REMOVE A LOT OF THE CHEATING BIG MONEY OWNERS AND TRAINERS AND THE GAME WOULD CONTINUE PRETTY MUCH LIKE IT IS TODAY WITH 150-200 PEOPLE IN THE GRANDSTAND. SO BE IT
-
tmbz1 At 60, given traditional life expectancies, I feel now that the last race I will be in is ME vs Harness Racing. Hate to see either of us lose.
-
What about that fat black pimp from Port Jervis New York (so called horse owner) that used to bring that little blonde to suck off the state vet to find out what races they were blood/gas testing!
I let them ship with me once , he wanted to have her suck my dick for payment! I thought to myself …she sucked that fucking shine’s cheese dick I’m not gonna let her near me!
-
Really have nooooo idea what you are talking about ngc3
-
Really have nooooo idea what you are talking about ngc3
He was called by his initials not his name.
-
What about that fat black pimp from Port Jervis New York (so called horse owner) that used to bring that little blonde to suck off the state vet to find out what races they were blood/gas testing!
I let them ship with me once , he wanted to have her suck my dick for payment! I thought to myself …she sucked that fucking shine’s cheese dick I’m not gonna let her near me!
Fuguzzi he hung around the farms in the tri state area.
-
never encountered or heard of him
-
I am 100% aware of how racing operated in those days. People who raced clean, no matter what there level of skill or how sharp they were, batted .200 to maybe .250.
Most raced in condition races and when their stead got down to NW $2,000 L5, they drew well and jogged. Then another 6-8 weeks of 4th and 5th place checks before they go down in class top win or be second. No matter how talented a horse person you are , you are a .200 trainer in these circumstances.
You could drop in a claimer. Not wanting to lose him but looking to be more aggressive in his placement, you tag him for $10K more than he is worth. No takers. Nobody makes a dime but, you now fit NW of $2K again. If you tagged him at the value he has been performing at, there were 10 sharks, swimming the blood stained waters of the claiming box. Either way you go bust if you continue to play. One of those creeps would draw the lucky pill and in 2 weeks with some EPO, soda and breathing meds, he wins and the driver takes almost a 1/2 mile to pull him up. Double jumps the next start and the classy 10yr. old shaves 2 seconds off his lifetime mark.
Now, the former trainer looks to be incompetent or at the least, a guy that time has passed by. The owner feels like a complete schmuck and finds a new way to get his action fix.
This shit went on right until the VLT laws passed. Everyone knew harness racing had less integrity than, wrestling and roller derby. Hell, Boxing had more going for it. That was until the MMA gave the pugilistic fan an alternative. When a politician in NY was on the outs, his peers and pundits would "you will be seeing him on a bench at Yonkers Trots, next.
To give any of these low life gutless creeps any remembrance other than what they excelled at
cheating, is a great travesty of fairness to the straight guys.
This is well said & on point.
-
I WILL PROBABLY GET CRUCIFIED FOR SAYING THIS BUT HERE GOES. I CURRENTLY OWN 4 HORSES-- 2 IN PA, 1 IN NEW JERSEY AND 1 IN INDIANA. KIRBYS QUESTION IS A VERY VALID ONE THAT NEEDS TO BE ANSWERED HONESTLY. I DO NOT CONSIDER MYSELF A CHEATING OWNER BECAUSE I'VE ALWAYS TRIED TO DO SHIT THE RIGHT WAY AS I WAS RAISED THAT WAY. I WAS A TEENAGE FAN AND THEN ONE OF MY BEST FRIENDS FROM COLLEGE DRAGGED ME INTO A PARTNERSHIP AND I FELL IN LOVE WITH OWNING SINCE 1989. I'VE SEEN IT ALL PRETTY MUCH. BUT TO ANSWER KIRBYS QUESTION, I WAS WITH THE SAME TRAINER WHO FOR THE MOST PART WAS A STRAIGHT SHOOTER BUT I GOT TIRED OF GETTING MY ASS KICKED BY THE OTHER JUICE TRAINERS EVERY WEEK. I HAD TO DO SOMETHING AND I HAD TWO CHOICES. EITHER GET OUT OF THE BUSINESS COMPLETLY WHICH IS WHAT MY PARTNER DID OR STILL OWN AND HIRE ONE OF THE MANY CHEATING JUICE TRAINERS AT EACH TRACK SO I COULD BE ON THE SAME PLAYING FIELD WITH THEM. I WAS LOSING MY ASS AND WOULD OF GONE BROKE SO I CHOOSE THE LATTER. IN MY OPINION, ITS THE TRAINERS WHO START OUT AS THE CHEATS (DRUGS, ABUSE, ELECTROCUTION, ETC) AND I GUESS WE OWNERS BECOME CHEATS AS WELL BECAUSE OF WHAT WE HAVE TO DO TO SURVIVE IN THE BUSINESS. I'LL APOLOGIZE RIGHT NOW TO ALL OF MY FRIENDS IN THIS BUSINESS BUT WE OWNERS HAVE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR ENABLING THE CHEATING TRAINERS TO THRIVE. I'M PRETTY SURE WITHOUT US, THEY COULDNT CHEAT AT THE LEVEL THEY DO AND WIN RACES LEFT AND RIGHT LIKE THE TOP TRAINERS AT EVERY TRACK DO. I'M A SMALL TIME GUY BUT I'M BEING HONEST, I HAD TO DO WHAT I HAD TO DO.
No one can wait forever for the authorities to what needs to be done. I don't judge someone doing what is necessary to survive & protect their investment.
-
You do not deserve to be crucified. I was involved with a high percentage trainer and i knew intuitively his percentage was the kind that suggests he was "using something" To this day, i have no idea what it was or what he was "doing". Once, a PJ even called me into his office and started yelling about how he gets so many complaints from the public about this guy and kept asking what the hell he is using/doing. I told him, sorry, i have no idea. intuitively, I knew something was wrong, but yeah it's hard to give up winning. I can live with myself.
Now if I knew of abuse akin to the "Allard Death Camp" That's a whole different story. I ran into that situation ponce in my life and did the right thing.
It's either do something or you were run out of the business. That is the effect the big cheaters have on everyone. I can't judge someone trying to survive.
-
Unfortunately, a lot of decent, hard working people who tried their best, were shoved to the sidelines or right out of the business, almost overnight.
-
Unfortunately, a lot of decent, hard working people who tried their best, were shoved to the sidelines or right out of the business, almost overnight.
Too many! and all actually had the best interest of the horse at the core of their barns. The only ones left are the cheats and those that had enough money to hang on as long as they can. The cheats have to go. This is industries cheats are at pandemic proportions.
-
Half if not more. There are people training again at YR that I thought 5/10/12 years ago would have been gone for good.
-
Half if not more. There are people training again at YR that I thought 5/10/12 years ago would have been gone for good.
It's obvious yet the authorities are oblivious
How hard can it be to watch a particular barn on a race day and see if forms change or not and for crying out loud do out of competition for epogen
-
It's obvious yet the authorities are oblivious
How hard can it be to watch a particular barn on a race day and see if forms change or not and for crying out loud do out of competition for epogen
My Hoosier trainer friend said most of the EPO guys are giving it seven days out mostly on sundays when nobody is driving to a farm to do out of competition testing. He said unless they actually see them administer the shot, it’s completely pointless because the horse naturally has epo in their system and there is no catching them. Only way to level the field and this will never happen is to have one huge facility with cameras like Hoosier and have 100 barns and make it a rule that you MUST stable at the track. If not go and race someplace else.
-
They’re way past using EPO. There are blood builders now that are undetectable after 12 hrs.
-
Little outfits have no choice.The options are very simple,PRODUCE CASH or REDUCE NUMBERS AND COSTS!
-
You want to hear about how bad the owners are. About 10 years ago I got sent a homebred from a “top owner” because his top trainers didn’t want him. Worked my ass off to get him to the races. Won his first lifetime start in SS. Went home with Josh Marks that day. The same owner is now saying he didn’t know Beaton was like that. That is the biggest problem with the industry they are afraid to throw out the biggest scumbags. BTW it was over a year before he won another race
-
The owners are still a big problem. Like they don’t know the juice is flowing that night. Gotta outta town with those bust owners who run to the horse abusers and cheats.