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General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: bello on October 17, 2023, 09:05:04 PM
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Anyone remember him from Yonkers or the Big M...This is not a joke
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I do Forgive me Wasnt it Robert Samson? Colors I think involved gray and maroon? Very sharp
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Canadian? Ecurie Robert Samson I think that's how it read in the program
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B l ack and white...La Baron Rouge ..best cliser I ever saw in history of harness racing...well that I saw live
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Carl Lecause drove Le Baron Rouge
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I catch paddocked a Samson horse at YR once that Luc drove. I know that for a fact. Cool guy!
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Mo he did not...Carl's named horse..escort. Stewart Hanover....Bobby Sampson drove la baron rouge
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LA baron Rouge was Bobby Sampson horse...end of story
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Are you talking about the go year old man that was recently profiled online? ROBERT SAMPSON? Or the guy from Montreal ROBERT SAMSON I am talking about the latter
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Check out last post in the rosecroft handicapping thread.
Link to video and he is racing in 2 minutes at RCR...Same guy?
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80 year old
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Frog....he drove la baron rouge....Carl never did
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Check out last post in the rosecroft handicapping thread.
Link to video and he is racing in 2 minutes at RCR...Same guy?
NO
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God may strike me dead if i didn't see Carl LeCause drive Le Baron Rouge at the Big MAnd when he went on the road to Illinois and California i think a guy named Gervais drove him
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Bello - I saw the man you are talking about online 80 and won at Rosecroft nice I am talking about Robert Samson French Canadian was a sharp trainer NY Metro 80 and 90s Luc drove for him and herve
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Bello - I saw the man you are talking about online 80 and won at Rosecroft nice I am talking about Robert Samson French Canadian was a sharp trainer NY Metro 80 and 90s Luc drove for him and herve
Got it....Well this old man just schooled the youngsters at Rosecroft and he looks better in the bike than all of them
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nice
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No arguement that Le Cause's main horse was Escort but I KNOW i saw LeCause drive Le baron Rouge in the Whata Baron days 1 time at the BigM
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Anyone remember him from Yonkers or the Big M...This is not a joke
i think ur referring to Bobby Sampson from Canada.. He drove at Monticello in early 70's and also drove at Meadowlands 80-81... He died in an auto accident up in Canada when he was only 33.. His truck hit a dead moose and caused and he got killed.. he was a good driver
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Sorry disagree...I was there then...friends at harmony cove with lew...always bobby
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LA baron Rouge was Bobby Sampson horse...end of story
??? Have only found 3 LeBaron Rouge races online and 2 press clippings Bernard Gervais in the bike every time.
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Thats Hollywood Park. Bobby drove everytime big m...
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i think ur referring to Bobby Sampson from Canada.. He drove at Monticello in early 70's and also drove at Meadowlands 80-81... He died in an auto accident up in Canada when he was only 33.. His truck hit a dead moose and caused and he got killed.. he was a good driver
Emperor There was a french canadian trainer named Robert Samson racing Ny/BigM 80s 90s Luc used to drive Came from montreal Program read Ecurie Robert Samson I did a catch paddock for him with Luc driving? You don't remember him?
Not the guy who died in Canada I remember that I think he tried the meadowlands not long after it opened A different Robert Samson prolly in his 50s when i am talking about
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For a short time there was a Robert Sampson driving steady at MR. It was quite some time ago. Could this be the same guy?
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100% Sampson drive Rouge at Meadowlands .. In 1980 he snapped Direct Scooters win streak in the 1st leg of The Driscoll with Sampson driving
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The Kid killed at 33 in Canada was spelled S A M S O N No p in his name
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The only french Robert Sampson i can remember is the canadian Bobby Sampson.. As another poster stated he drove at Monti in the 70's.. Actually ratted out to track management a few guys trying to fix Superfecta up there in 73.. He drove at Meadowlands too and drove Le Baron and also was a leading driver at Blue Bonnet.. then he had that accident with the moose and died at 33.. i don't remember another Sampson but my memory is shit.. 😂
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Same guy that testified in Monti in 1972
The man in Rosecroft is S A M P S O N
There was a trainer named Robert Samson who did well in NY 80s / 90s
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Three different people that much we have established
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GUYS I AM TRYING TO SAY AS A FRENCH MAN THERE WAS NO P IN HIS NAME SAMSON and there was another trainer in his 50s nothing to do with the kid killed who did drive LBR yes bello started this whole thing with an old guy namede SAMPSON at Rosecroft
LOLOL
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Yes and he was the only one to drive rouge..fantastic closer...last 8 th always airborne. .yo
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Not too confuse things even more, there is a 4th one.
Robert Sampson Jr. is the son of the 80 year old guy that won today and he also drives in Amateur races in the mid-atlantic.
Sorry to start this mess.
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Yes and he was the only one to drive rouge..fantastic closer...last 8 th always airborne. .yo
Well then who was Bernard Gervais? because he won all over the country with Le Baron Rouge? Meadowlands Chicago Hollywood - you can look that up
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There are 5 races involving Le baron Rouge at YR/RR/Big M 1977 -79 Driscolls vs Whata Baron and Opens vs Governor Skipper and so forth where Le Baron Rouge is driven By Bernard Gervais mostly white colors with a big dark V shape on the back sits upright
Thewre are press clippings of him winning at Hollywood and in Chicago ( beats Gov Skipper ) also Bernard Gervais I know that the Robert Samson drove him in 80/81 meadowlands and RR So apparently Robert Samson drove him after he arrived on the east coast from Canada and Gervais before 77.78.79 So not 100% Samson at all at BigM, but I wont name call
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Well I have exhausted every means at my disposal and my Grandfather is long gone, so i have no way to confirm but rthe very first time i ever went to the Meadowlands with him, winter of 78 to see my fave horse Whata Baron in person, I know Le Baron Rouge was in the race and I could swear he was being driven by Carl Le Cause. but the world tells me I am wrong and i can't find any evidence he drove him even once. It appears it was Gervais then Samson, so that's that
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Was down in Maryland over the summer and watched him drive in many of the Amateur races in Motion at the Ocean. Was an auto-toss for me from a gambling standpoint.
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HERES THE DEFINITIVE I used to go to Blue Bonnets in Montreal in the early-mid 70s . I want to say 1972-73,and again 76-77 and I remember this phenom in the black (and white) colors named Robert Samson. He was around during Jacques Hebert, Benoit Cote, Albert Hanna, young Yves Filion, Gendron family and Lachance families too, etc. time. 80-81 BIG M forays as well. He was gifted. Alas he was killed in bad crash coming back south from quebec city on a sunday night, after a day card back in montreal.
here is a Montreal Gazette lift...still trying to pin down date. 80s
Blue Bonnets Montreal , . gloomy after Samson's death
It was dawn and work had begun as usual at Blue Bonnets. But there was no enthusiasm. There was a gloomy air to the west end track: Robert Samson had not been there urging on a young colt during its daily workout Early Monday morning Samson was killed when a truck he was a passenger in apparently struck the carcass of a moose on a highway outside Quebec City. Samson had driven Six Point Seven, an 11-1 longshot, to a surprise third-place finish in the 10th and final race at Bonnets Sunday afternoon. Along with trainer Andre Blouin, Samson loaded Chantilly Gem into the trailer hitched to Blouin's 4x4 truck and headed for Quebec City where his 3-year-old was entered in the ninth race of Sunday night's 10-race card. After the race, Samson and Blouin stopped for an hour to eat, and then headed back to Montreal. But between 1 and 2 a.m., the truck struck the dead animal on Au-toroute 20 in Ste. Appolinaire, 15 kilometres south of Quebec City. Samson died instantly. Blouin was taken to a nearby hospital with suspected internal injuries. But he suffered only a broken leg and yesterday be was discharged. Samson, 33, who also owned and trained horses but concentrated mostly on driving, captured the Bonnets' driving championship in , 1972 and 75. He spent the 1980-81 season competing at the Meadow lands track in East Rutherford, N.J., before returning to Montreal where he drove fulltime and became one of the most popular reinsmen. In 7,733 starts, the Verdun native registered 1,382 victories, 1,-238 second-place finishes and placed third 1,068. He earned $5,424,305 in total purses.
Montreal Gazette
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HERES THE DEFINITIVE I used to go to Blue Bonnets in Montreal in the early-mid 70s . I want to say 1972-73,and again 76-77 and I remember this phenom in the black (and white) colors named Robert Samson. He was around during Jacques Hebert, Benoit Cote, young Yves Filion, Gendron family and Lachance families too, etc. time. 80-81 BIG M forays as well. He was gifted. Alas he was killed in bad crash coming back south from quebec city on a sunday night, after a day card back in montreal.
here is a Montreal Gazette lift...still trying to pin down date. 80s
Blue Bonnets Montreal , . gloomy after Samson's death
It was dawn and work had begun as usual at Blue Bonnets. But there was no enthusiasm. There was a gloomy air to the west end track: Robert Samson had not been there urging on a young colt during its daily workout Early Monday morning Samson was killed when a truck he was a passenger in apparently struck the carcass of a moose on a highway outside Quebec City. Samson had driven Six Point Seven, an 11-1 longshot, to a surprise third-place finish in the 10th and final race at Bonnets Sunday afternoon. Along with trainer Andre Blouin, Samson loaded Chantilly Gem into the trailer hitched to Blouin's 4x4 truck and headed for Quebec City where his 3-year-old was entered in the ninth race of Sunday night's 10-race card. After the race, Samson and Blouin stopped for an hour to eat, and then headed back to Montreal. But between 1 and 2 a.m., the truck struck the dead animal on Au-toroute 20 in Ste. Appolinaire, 15 kilometres south of Quebec City. Samson died instantly. Blouin was taken to a nearby hospital with suspected internal injuries. But he suffered only a broken leg and yesterday be was discharged. Samson, 33, who also owned and trained horses but concentrated mostly on driving, captured the Bonnets' driving championship in , 1972 and 75. He spent the 1980-81 season competing at the Meadow lands track in East Rutherford, N.J., before returning to Montreal where he drove fulltime and became one of the most popular reinsmen. In 7,733 starts, the Verdun native registered 1,382 victories, 1,-238 second-place finishes and placed third 1,068. He earned $5,424,305 in total purses.
Montreal Gazette
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and one more DEFINITIVE R Samson
HECTOR CLOUTHIER
Robert Samson
7 March 2023 - 4:59 pm
Robert Samson was an exciting, gifted driver from the province of Quebec who passed away tragically at a young age while driving back to Montreal from Quebec City after competing in some races. The truck in which he was a passenger hit a moose and Samson was killed instantly. His drives behind the free for all pacer Le Baron Rouge were a thing of beauty, always coming from the back end and swooping the field. Robert was a “showman“ for sure but his style both on and off the track garnered great publicity for the sport of harness horse racing among the general public.
Thank you Robert Smith for your Rewind articles, as you can notice from the avid response to them you are keeping us in touch with our history and that is vitally important. Merci bien and bravo!!!
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yes, i am aware of him. Tragic loss. Do you remember a trainer names Robert Samson who raced NY metro/ Mdlnds in the 80s and 90s Montreal guy, I think owned many Ecurie Robert Samson sharp guy used Luc I know I paddocked one for him fresh off claim stepped up to 33k, 3 hole Luc first up and grinded by Guy gave me 80 in stead of the usual 40 even though it was a catch paddock red and gray or white or something like that
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and one more DEFINITIVE R Samson
HECTOR CLOUTHIER
Robert Samson
7 March 2023 - 4:59 pm
Robert Samson was an exciting, gifted driver from the province of Quebec who passed away tragically at a young age while driving back to Montreal from Quebec City after competing in some races. The truck in which he was a passenger hit a moose and Samson was killed instantly. His drives behind the free for all pacer Le Baron Rouge were a thing of beauty, always coming from the back end and swooping the field. Robert was a “showman“ for sure but his style both on and off the track garnered great publicity for the sport of harness horse racing among the general public.
Thank you Robert Smith for your Rewind articles, as you can notice from the avid response to them you are keeping us in touch with our history and that is vitally important. Merci bien and bravo!!!
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So who was Bernard Gervais that drove LBR previous to Bobby Samson Until i started digging i didn't recall Gervais at all
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race vid
November 4, 1979
George Morton Levy Memorial Pace - Purse $200,000
Equals track record 1:56.3
1- Try Scotch with rail, 'bottomed out' these tough customers (inc #5 Le Baron Rouge-not sure if Samson in bike for this) Dresden, Ontario's Shelley Goudreau wins..but was killed three years later, at 34, at Hollywood Park
2- Lime Time
3- Rambling Willie
4- Wizard Almahurst
5- Le Baron Rouge
6- Flight Director
7- Sirota Anderson
8- Hot Hitter
9- Direct Scooter
https://youtu.be/y4OI90wsEUc?si=o0mj2mJBDqYrqrBv
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re: R samson
a 2020 HH post by Kelso --
I know it's a long long long time ago..but does anyone remember when young Robert Samson testified against drivers at Monticello for "fixing"...I liked Bobby at the Big M although the win % was never good. Back in Montreal, he was one helluva young driver..
emporer dapple countered --
The boys offered him $500..Pretty good money back in 1972
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Yes, ty I have seen all that. Do you know anything about Bernard Gervais who drove LBR for years or the trainer of more recent named Robert Samson I was asking about?
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THIS ONE FOR FUGUZZI
'BERNARD GERVAIS;
A PIECE FROM SHANNON SUGAR DOYLE JAN '21
This trip to Mohawk would have been when Uncle Ed was 43… A coincidence that I’d make my way to Ontario, as well, when I was 43 to join the team at The Raceway in London… It appears the excitement, of Ontario horse racing, appealed to us both as we got into our 40’s and we just had to be there in person.
It would be a Sunday - for that Mohawk card of 1978 - featuring some real nice horses and they were going for some real good money. I’d assume Uncle Ed would look forward to Race 7 on the day - the $59,800 Mohawk Gold Cup Pacing Stake - featuring a small, but select field of five…
1. SENOR SKIPPER (TOM STRAUSS)
2. BATTLING BRAD (ROSS HAYTER)
3. LE BARON ROUGE (BERNARD GERVAIS)
4. DREAM MAKER (RON WAPLES)
5. GOVERNOR SKIPPER (JOHN CHAPMAN)
Uncle Ed was always good for marking his programs… His penmanship showed that Dream Maker had won over Le Baron Rouge and Governor Skipper - then came Battling Brad and Senor Skipper. Fractions were 29.4, 1:00.3, 1:28.4 - leading to a mile in 1:58 flat. A big trip for late in the season and a new track record for the aged pacers.
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plus this 1970 Edmonton, Alberta xtra
Bernard Gervais in Edmonton Journal - Sep 1 1970
"... the city offering and thc company asking Family enjoys raving Blaze Butler, u daughter of former world pacing champion Adios Butler, paced a Sunday in a matinee race with Bernard Gervais of Quebec City in the sulky. Thc race was part of harness racing Open House at Northlands Park. Over 2.500 enthusiasts, including 1.500 children, attended thc famil) day to learn ..."
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Yes ty for that memorabilia.. Gervais drove him four times at the BigM that i can verify, at least Also won with Gervais in Cali. and Chicago that I am aware of thru research.
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and the Samson Monti race fix whistle blow story mentioned back in '20 by kelso and emporer dapple
NY TIMES MONTICELLO, N. Y., May 11, 1972 —Four men, were arrested by New York State Police late tonight for allegedly attempting to fix the Superfecta in the ninth race at Monticello Raceway.
The four were taken to the Ferndale (N. Y.) Barracks and were being questioned at a late hour by Norman Buck, chief investigator for the Bureau of Criminal Investigation.
The four suspects were Thomas Garafano, 24 years old, of 31 Southstone, Elmsford, N. Y., Donald Robert Brainard, 40, 395 East 45th Street, Brooklyn; Harold Allen Gillis, 25, R.D. 1, North. Sydney, Nova Scotia, and Stanley L. Stein of the Bronx, N. Y.
The Superfecta is a race in which the bettor attempts to pick the order of finish for‐the first four horses. Unlike an ordinary wager, a Superfecta ticket costs the bettor $3 instead of $2
Driver at Freehold
Garafano was licensed in New York as a driver last year and drove in five races at Monticello during the winter meeting. Presently he drives at Freehold Raceway in New Jersey.
Gillis is a former groom and has not been licensed by the New York Harness Racing Commission since 1969.
Gillis was the man identified by Robert Samson, the first driver approached in the alleged fix, as the man who paid him $500 with instructions to drive his horse, Bobbalou, “not to finish better than fifth in the field.”
Samson, a 23‐year‐old driver from Montreal, Quebec, first was approached on Wednesday night as he was sitting in the grandstand watching the eighth race on the program.
Early yesterday morning, Samson contacted Leon Greenberg, the track's president and general manager; Jacob Iberger, head of the track's security force; Vincent Bergamo, the presiding judge, and Ralph Swalsky, the track's racing secretary..
Later in the morning, Samson was again approached by two unidentified men who told him, “Forget it, we can't find the winner.”
By this time the track officials had alerted the State Police, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and the Monticello Police Department.
Samson returned to his home. Again two unidentified men called on Samson and told him “the fix is on again.” Samson said he was told to meet Gillis and the other principals at Johnny's Restaurant on Route 17B, near the track.
Samson again informed Iberger of the development. Iberger told Samson, “Go ahead, take the money and see if you can find out if anybody else was taken care of for the race.”
Samson met Gillis at the appointed place and was told, “Follow me down the road about a quarter of a mile, and I'll give you the $500.” Samson did as he was told, got the money, then turned it over to Iberger back at the track. All this time, Samson was under the surveillance of Mike Bonney, a harness commission investigator.
With the money having been paid and the fix allegedly set, Iberger turned the money over to the State Police.
Inspeotor Buck and 10 other State Police officers; Lee Lowery, the F.B.I. agent in charge of the Catskill Region; Monticello's chief of police, Lou Yank, and track security police put a tight guard around the track when the race program began at 8:30.
The arrests were made at 11:35 when the ninth race went off by Buck and the other State Police officers. The four suspects were handcuffed and taken to Ferndale.
Inspector Buck said late last night that the four had been charged with bribery.
Samson drove his horse, Bobbalou, to victory in the onemile event in a time of 2:08.4. The owners are Morty and Barry Green of Montreal. Bobbalou paid $6.80, $4.60 and $3.40. The Superfecta, Numbers 5‐4‐6‐2, paid $5,024.10.
Test of Time Is 2d
Test of Time, driven by Albert Hanna, was second. Lucky Coin, driven by Richard Manzi, was third, and Young Native, driven by George Kovian, was fourth.
Robert A. Glaser, chairman of the New York State Harness Commission, said of the attempted fix and subsequent arrests, “This is a splendid example of coordinated law enforcement action.”
Greenberg said, “This entire action is evidence that horsemen have a strong desire and interest in keeping the sport honest. The majority of horsemen would act in the same commendable manner as Mr. Samson did.
“Horsemen are often vilified. I am proud of them and know that most horsemen would come forward to throw out the bad apples.”
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Finding all these articles is fantastic and brings back a lot of memories. Back in the early 70s hearing about race fixing, as I recall, was much more common than drugging. I don’t remember when we started hearing a lot more about the chemists. Anyway I have trouble remembering a person’s name 5 minutes after meeting them but I absolutely recall Samson’s horse Bobbalou at MR. Does anyone know if any of the accused went to jail and what became of them? P.S. 2:08.4…lol
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Sure does I can not believe no body here remembers the trainer from the 80s and 90s by the same name who used to race NY Metro circuit. Always shipped into YR from somewhere not stabled there. His stable was listed in French in the program as he owned most of them "Ecurie Robert Samson" He did not drive
Was hoping u or Mike C, thorn, old guy could verify
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Le Baron Rouge
Albert Bertrand was listed as the trainer in his later years, not sure who handled him earlier. He won the 1980 Gold Cup with Ron Waples driving and is the 2nd oldest horse to ever win that race (he was 8 in 1980)!!
Also, here is a link to a 1980 Meadowlands program page (actually entire program, but you need to tab to the page below the main photo) and if you click on it, it will enlarge so you can see clearly...about 7 past performance lines in the Invitational at the Meadowlands with Samson driving:
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/harness-horse-racing-1980-meadowlands-3775558097
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Bob Sampson Jr. is from Md./Del. and tried his hand at Saratoga years ago. I remember him as a nice young man trying to drum up some business for himself.
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Le Baron Rouge
Albert Bertrand was listed as the trainer in his later years, not sure who handled him earlier. He won the 1980 Gold Cup with Ron Waples driving and is the 2nd oldest horse to ever win that race (he was 8 in 1980)!!
Also, here is a link to a 1980 Meadowlands program page (actually entire program, but you need to tab to the page below the main photo) and if you click on it, it will enlarge so you can see clearly...about 7 past performance lines in the Invitational at the Meadowlands with Samson driving:
https://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/harness-horse-racing-1980-meadowlands-3775558097
Ty for the info. So we have established that once Robert Samson arrived at the BigM he became LBRs regular driver and prvious to 1980 it was Bernard Gervais. Until last night I had not even heard of Bernard Gervais. Do you remember anything about him?
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and the Samson Monti race fix whistle blow story mentioned back in '20 by kelso and emporer dapple
NY TIMES MONTICELLO, N. Y., May 11, 1972 —Four men, were arrested by New York State Police late tonight for allegedly attempting to fix the Superfecta in the ninth race at Monticello Raceway.
The four were taken to the Ferndale (N. Y.) Barracks and were being questioned at a late hour by Norman Buck, chief investigator for the Bureau of Criminal Investigation.
The four suspects were Thomas Garafano, 24 years old, of 31 Southstone, Elmsford, N. Y., Donald Robert Brainard, 40, 395 East 45th Street, Brooklyn; Harold Allen Gillis, 25, R.D. 1, North. Sydney, Nova Scotia, and Stanley L. Stein of the Bronx, N. Y.
The Superfecta is a race in which the bettor attempts to pick the order of finish for‐the first four horses. Unlike an ordinary wager, a Superfecta ticket costs the bettor $3 instead of $2
Driver at Freehold
Garafano was licensed in New York as a driver last year and drove in five races at Monticello during the winter meeting. Presently he drives at Freehold Raceway in New Jersey.
Gillis is a former groom and has not been licensed by the New York Harness Racing Commission since 1969.
Gillis was the man identified by Robert Samson, the first driver approached in the alleged fix, as the man who paid him $500 with instructions to drive his horse, Bobbalou, “not to finish better than fifth in the field.”
Samson, a 23‐year‐old driver from Montreal, Quebec, first was approached on Wednesday night as he was sitting in the grandstand watching the eighth race on the program.
Early yesterday morning, Samson contacted Leon Greenberg, the track's president and general manager; Jacob Iberger, head of the track's security force; Vincent Bergamo, the presiding judge, and Ralph Swalsky, the track's racing secretary..
Later in the morning, Samson was again approached by two unidentified men who told him, “Forget it, we can't find the winner.”
By this time the track officials had alerted the State Police, the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and the Monticello Police Department.
Samson returned to his home. Again two unidentified men called on Samson and told him “the fix is on again.” Samson said he was told to meet Gillis and the other principals at Johnny's Restaurant on Route 17B, near the track.
Samson again informed Iberger of the development. Iberger told Samson, “Go ahead, take the money and see if you can find out if anybody else was taken care of for the race.”
Samson met Gillis at the appointed place and was told, “Follow me down the road about a quarter of a mile, and I'll give you the $500.” Samson did as he was told, got the money, then turned it over to Iberger back at the track. All this time, Samson was under the surveillance of Mike Bonney, a harness commission investigator.
With the money having been paid and the fix allegedly set, Iberger turned the money over to the State Police.
Inspeotor Buck and 10 other State Police officers; Lee Lowery, the F.B.I. agent in charge of the Catskill Region; Monticello's chief of police, Lou Yank, and track security police put a tight guard around the track when the race program began at 8:30.
The arrests were made at 11:35 when the ninth race went off by Buck and the other State Police officers. The four suspects were handcuffed and taken to Ferndale.
Inspector Buck said late last night that the four had been charged with bribery.
Samson drove his horse, Bobbalou, to victory in the onemile event in a time of 2:08.4. The owners are Morty and Barry Green of Montreal. Bobbalou paid $6.80, $4.60 and $3.40. The Superfecta, Numbers 5‐4‐6‐2, paid $5,024.10.
Test of Time Is 2d
Test of Time, driven by Albert Hanna, was second. Lucky Coin, driven by Richard Manzi, was third, and Young Native, driven by George Kovian, was fourth.
Robert A. Glaser, chairman of the New York State Harness Commission, said of the attempted fix and subsequent arrests, “This is a splendid example of coordinated law enforcement action.”
Greenberg said, “This entire action is evidence that horsemen have a strong desire and interest in keeping the sport honest. The majority of horsemen would act in the same commendable manner as Mr. Samson did.
“Horsemen are often vilified. I am proud of them and know that most horsemen would come forward to throw out the bad apples.”
Great story. What a bunch of morons. Funny part is they all met a Johnny's. Johnny's was a strip joint about a half mile from the track. Apparently they didn't think this through. Bobbalou -- I too remember him well -- not a name you can forget. Thanks for the article. As someone mentioned -- yes -- back then it was all about fixing races -- now it's all about the chemists. Back then the drivers' ruled, now the chemists (trainers) rule. Better back then as far as I'm concerned -- less harmful for the horses and everybody had a fair chance -- even if you got stiffed now and then.
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Will the real Robert Samson/Sampson please stand up 73cv.2
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There were 4 as it was pointed out if you include Jr, from todays era
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There were 4 as it was pointed out if you include Jr, from todays era
Hey Fug, found a program from opening night at the Meadowlands, 1976 and Le Baron Rouge was in one of the races with Buddy Gilmour on him. Jimmy Larente shows as his drive for his prior races, with Bertrand still as the trainer.
If you are interested, there are about 4 copies of the opening night program up on Ebay ($25-$75)...makes for fun reading. The opening night invitational had Mirror Image, Shirley's Beau, Young Quinn, Nero, Jilley, Keystone Accent, Bullet Bluecrest, Rambling Willie, Peter Lobell and Momentum!!
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Hey Fug, found a program from opening night at the Meadowlands, 1976 and Le Baron Rouge was in one of the races with Buddy Gilmour on him. Jimmy Larente shows as his drive for his prior races, with Bertrand still as the trainer.
If you are interested, there are about 4 copies of the opening night program up on Ebay ($25-$75)...makes for fun reading. The opening night invitational had Mirror Image, Shirley's Beau, Young Quinn, Nero, Jilley, Keystone Accent, Bullet Bluecrest, Rambling Willie, Peter Lobell and Momentum!!
I appreciate this very much. I remember seeing many different drivers on him. Also, recall, like many horses of the day he the whole equipment shop and was tangy gained, at least to me. But what a marvelous warhorse.
Just gor annoying when Comeonman said "Samson 100" the driver. Cause I knew LBR raced before that kid arrived. Not important. I am not worried about being right, just dont wanna feel like I am crazy - yet! LOL
Incidentally, my maternal grandfather was friends in some capacity with the owners of Mirror image. he used to bet him all the time when he would race in NY.
What great names from our days! WOW!
Saw a thing online where u can buy at auction a program cover of LBR winning a race at Hollywood in 1977 with Gervais driving from the 10 hole. Horses left and right of him in charge to the wire.
Any info on Gervais the driver beyond his association with LBR?? I draw a blank at his name.
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Yes Bernie Gervais drove Le Baron Rouge as he was a bit difficult to manage . Yes Bobby Samson did drive in his black and white colors and long black hair, skinny guy. Yes he did rat out Stanley Stein and others at Monticello . Yes he did tragically die when striking a moose.
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Yes Bernie Gervais drove Le Baron Rouge as he was a bit difficult to manage . Yes Bobby Samson did drive in his black and white colors and long black hair, skinny guy. Yes he did rat out Stanley Stein and others at Monticello . Yes he did tragically die when striking a moose.
Thanks old guy.. Even watching grainy video you can see the horse is a bit all over the place, then he would fire in the stretch.
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Thanks old guy.. Even watching grainy video you can see the horse is a bit all over the place, then he would fire in the stretch.
In 1977, at the age of 5, Le Baron Rouge won the American Pacing Classic, with Bernard Gervais listed as both driver and trainer with Paul-Henri Lavoee as owner.
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Speaking of dying tragically, Ricky LaFramboise drove a horse for me just hours before he and Robbie Rankin were killed in that horrific car crash in Feb. 1990. To return to the track about 10 hours later to find out he had been killed in the wee hours of the morning really shook me up. Ricky was a nice kid, didn;t really know Robbie, both so young. Both had decent ability, not that that matters when measuring the value of their lives. Anyway.....
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Robbie was a very nice young man. I was in a group of 5 that owned a nice horse named Elected. Robbie trained and drove the horse. We thought he was a better trainer than a driver. We asked him to use an established Roosevelt/Yonkers driver and he wasn’t too happy with us. With a mutual resolution we moved Elected to Vinnie Aurigemma who always used Mike LaChance as I recall. Eventually we moved the horse to Freehold as he was hitting a wall if he won in the NY B-1/B-2 classes. Elected took off at Freehold winning 3 in a row with gentleman Harold Kelly driving. He hit the wall there once he was put in the Invitational class. Anihid Avakian was our trainer in NJ and she was great. Robbie’s death was a terrible shock. I believe either his father or brother also met an untimely death all too early. We finally sold Elected to the survivor Jack Parker Jr. for $30,000 when he was around 9 years old. Having a horse that gave us so many win photos and also paid his way was a great experience. As we owners know this is not always the case.
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good tale from the glory days. Remember your horse well. Vinny and mike were very tight. Vinny and Joy always did well. When they joined forces with LaChance, they exploded. Mike helped them a lot!
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I too liked Vinny and yes his partnership with Mike LaChance was a huge win-win. Around 10 -15 years after moving this horse away from Vinny I saw Mike in the Meadowlands paddock. We chatted and he informed me how Vinny’s life went in a very bad direction. That was shocking to me since Vinny seemed to be so grounded and focused on his very successful career. Vinny passed away in 2020.
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hey. please fill me in. I knew that he and Joy ultimately divorced. What is a "bad direction" They always ran what appeared to be a first class operation. had many significant horses as you already know. WTH happened?
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Great story. What a bunch of morons. Funny part is they all met a Johnny's. Johnny's was a strip joint about a half mile from the track. Apparently they didn't think this through. Bobbalou -- I too remember him well -- not a name you can forget. Thanks for the article. As someone mentioned -- yes -- back then it was all about fixing races -- now it's all about the chemists. Back then the drivers' ruled, now the chemists (trainers) rule. Better back then as far as I'm concerned -- less harmful for the horses and everybody had a fair chance -- even if you got stiffed now and then.
I would say there was plenty of illegal drugs being used since the days of Ben Hur. The difference was the effective drugs were very expensive and kept to a few participants. At the lower class tracks such as Monticello, it was cost prohibitive. In 1973, they raced for $800. Dropping a package on a few guys living at or below poverty levels was much more practical.
Not in a hundred years, will harness racing ever become legitimate and relevant. No longer does the states have a vested interest in funding and policing the game. Only a couple racetracs even act like they care. Long gon is the local County Executive working to protect his portion of parking 10,000 cars a night and programs. No longer is the state willing to suspend anyone who has the wherewithal to fight them in court.
And the #1 reason harness racing will never be more than what it is; the guys who have the juice to make a difference are getting theirs. The average horsemen has little or no political power or funding to battle.
So, we go and rehash the arrests and facts from 50 years ago. Change the date to 2023 and all remains the same . Even some of the names.
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As usual you make many good points. I would like to add something that may sound simplistic, but if you give it a second thought, I think you may find it more significant than it may seem at first. In the old days drivers did rule and I think that's partly due to the fact that they could orchestrate and coordinate more easily when races were slower and fields were tightly bunched and you had guys constantly pulling to block or pulling to give "friends" trips. In short, drivers could do a lot of shit in 2:06
Trainers rule today, i believe, because expenses are very high, competition is much more fierce, owners can't make nearly as much betting as they used to and in this speed world horses pace in 50 or 51 and don't even get checks a lot of the time. The pressure to produce in my opinion is higher than ever. yes, there's plenty of purse money out there but you better be damned ready when you show up to the paddock. it is chemical warfare, IMO, now more than ever.
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2:06.0 at MR in those years wasn’t half bad in those $800 purse races. Who won George Sziklai or Jim Grundy?
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No disagreements in principal. My point was drugs have been around forever. But, until this last bunch of chemist and general scumbags got the notion to buy and sell some shit over the internet as well as develop local networks and buyers clubs, drugs were too expensive for the common horsman. Yes, investing $500 to cash a good triple ticket made more economic sense to this level of racing. Same in the Thoroughbreds.
I know people who got into the horse racing game for ease of race fixing. Both drugs and race fixing. It will never change. If you believe it will for the sake of civil conversation, please say so and why.
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When Jim Rankin died, Stan Bergstein divested himself of Doc's Fella and the rest is history.
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No disagreements in principal. My point was drugs have been around forever. But, until this last bunch of chemist and general scumbags got the notion to buy and sell some shit over the internet as well as develop local networks and buyers clubs, drugs were too expensive for the common horsman. Yes, investing $500 to cash a good triple ticket made more economic sense to this level of racing. Same in the Thoroughbreds.
I know people who got into the horse racing game for ease of race fixing. Both drugs and race fixing. It will never change. If you believe it will for the sake of civil conversation, please say so and why.
Hey buddy. Great stuff. You are totally correct about the drug scene. You read me every day so you know I certainly do not believe the game is ever coming back to a fraction of what it is. We lost our fan base for good 1 and 2 generations ago. As I've said , if not for racinos, the game would have ground to a virtual halt 20 years ago. what we are looking at today is not harness racing. The game has become a caricature of itself. I used to tell anyone who would listen the fascination with speed is going to kill this game over the years. we are witnessing the slow painful death before our very eyes.
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I would say there was plenty of illegal drugs being used since the days of Ben Hur. The difference was the effective drugs were very expensive and kept to a few participants. At the lower class tracks such as Monticello, it was cost prohibitive. In 1973, they raced for $800. Dropping a package on a few guys living at or below poverty levels was much more practical.
Not in a hundred years, will harness racing ever become legitimate and relevant. No longer does the states have a vested interest in funding and policing the game. Only a couple racetracs even act like they care. Long gon is the local County Executive working to protect his portion of parking 10,000 cars a night and programs. No longer is the state willing to suspend anyone who has the wherewithal to fight them in court.
And the #1 reason harness racing will never be more than what it is; the guys who have the juice to make a difference are getting theirs. The average horsemen has little or no political power or funding to battle.
So, we go and rehash the arrests and facts from 50 years ago. Change the date to 2023 and all remains the same . Even some of the names.
Yes illegal drugs have always been around. Back then it was always a balancing act on how much is it worth spending vs. the possible purse return. This included vet work (joints injected) (vitamins) etc. Even shoeing -- can he go another race without getting shod. I could go on and on. Back then you had to come up with creative ways to be a horseman. There were so many more little guys with 5-10 horse stables. How many times does Burke actually sit behind his horses? He relies on someone else, who might or might not care. He watches the race on television then calls the vet to check the horse out. The top trainers today are more or less Managers of stables -- not hands on trainers. Therefore they have to rely on chemicals to provide the necessary results.
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Robert Samson came over the border in 1969, worked for Angus Farm at Monticello as a groom. Did a lot of the training. Marcel Lefavre was listed (spelling off). Robert was a good guy, and he wanted to be called Robert. He was a gay as they came. I tried to buy a colt from them, Adios M Angus.
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Yes illegal drugs have always been around. Back then it was always a balancing act on how much is it worth spending vs. the possible purse return. This included vet work (joints injected) (vitamins) etc. Even shoeing -- can he go another race without getting shod. I could go on and on. Back then you had to come up with creative ways to be a horseman. There were so many more little guys with 5-10 horse stables. How many times does Burke actually sit behind his horses? He relies on someone else, who might or might not care. He watches the race on television then calls the vet to check the horse out. The top trainers today are more or less Managers of stables -- not hands on trainers. Therefore they have to rely on chemicals to provide the necessary results.
Interesting that you call the trainers today "managers" to a certain extent, especially the big barns. I was thinking the same thing. How much our trainers today are like T-bred trainers now.
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Interesting that you call the trainers today "managers" to a certain extent, especially the big barns. I was thinking the same thing. How much our trainers today are like T-bred trainers now.
Diamond Creek even hires a manager, Marcus Johansson, to manage the trainers, who manage their barns.
A little different from the times you trained, groomed, and paddocked your horse.
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Is that Stig's son? I remember him.
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Finding all these articles is fantastic and brings back a lot of memories. Back in the early 70s hearing about race fixing, as I recall, was much more common than drugging. I don’t remember when we started hearing a lot more about the chemists. Anyway I have trouble remembering a person’s name 5 minutes after meeting them but I absolutely recall Samson’s horse Bobbalou at MR. Does anyone know if any of the accused went to jail and what became of them? P.S. 2:08.4…lol
When that race fix business happened at Monticello Babbalou was in a $5000 claiming race. He was originally brought to Roosevelt/Yonkers by trainer, driver Lloyd Davis owned by the Green River Stock Farm.
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Is that Stig's son? I remember him.
Not sure about that, but he was married to Nancy Takter.
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Not related to Stig. decent horseman and driver till he got hurt. He doesn't manage the trainers, he manages the horses. He's not stupid, all he does is give his input. He checks out all the horses in training. AB trusts him, smart to have someone like that. Can't hide the problems.
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Not related to Stig. decent horseman and driver till he got hurt. He doesn't manage the trainers, he manages the horses. He's not stupid, all he does is give his input. He checks out all the horses in training. AB trusts him, smart to have someone like that. Can't hide the problems.
Got it. So he's more of an overseer than a manager of day-to-day operations. Offering his opinion on placement, buying , selling, and careers. I would think if he managed training schedules, vet work, etc. that would cause some conflict with the individual trainers. Good to have with a large operation. Thanks for the info.
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2:06.0 at MR in those years wasn’t half bad in those $800 purse races. Who won George Sziklai or Jim Grundy?
George Sadovsky
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Bubba Washington was 2nd