HORSEPLOP.COM
General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: Bitter Truth on October 20, 2023, 06:57:42 PM
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We've had a Freehold thread [kinda], a Mohawk, And now a M[1] one but nothing about Hoosier besides Confederate. Does it 'Come down to the Breeder's Crown'? ..makes you wonder.
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Seems as good a track to bet as any non 1/2 mile us track. Im not a big fan of elims though.
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So tonite you have Geocentric [5th[ Twin Joe Fresh [8th] Sylvia Hanover [9th]..Tomorrow: Jiggy Jog [2nd] Grace Hill [3rd] M+M's Dream[4th] Tattoo Artist[5th] Bythemissile[7th] The afore-mentioned Confederate [11th].. Surely they won't all win, will they?
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Be shocked if more than 2 lost
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I think it's in Indiana some place.
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I think it's in Indiana some place.
Where’s that
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Jenny BonBon looking like a $50 an hour piece in the winners circle with Zanatta
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So tonite you have Geocentric [5th[ Twin Joe Fresh [8th] Sylvia Hanover [9th]..Tomorrow: Jiggy Jog [2nd] Grace Hill [3rd] M+M's Dream[4th] Tattoo Artist[5th] Bythemissile[7th] The afore-mentioned Confederate [11th].. Surely they won't all win, will they?
1 for 3 tonight!
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where is trace
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Jenny BonBon looking like a $50 an hour piece in the winners circle with Zanatta
Was that her training suit?
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Was that her training suit?
Does she have a training suit?
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I prefer the little black dress she wore one day at Lexington.
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Jenn Bon looking good. tmbz1 You don't see too many trainers wearing high heels and carrying a purse in the winners circle.
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where is trace
He took notes
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Jenn Bon looking good. tmbz1 You don't see too many trainers wearing high heels and carrying a purse in the winners circle.
Did you mean her Christian Louboutin booties and her Hermes handbag so prominently displayed?? Also, all of a sudden her win % has skyrocketed lately; perhaps this is her time of the month (or year??) Many take the risks for 3-5 weeks when they make their pile and then lay back??
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will we see some bridge jumpers tonight
has to be at least 7 races( maybe more) where there are 6 or 7 horse fields and a heavy chalk fav
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agreed
that stretch is just too long
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agreed
that stretch is just too long
ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
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Remember when I was younger, couldn’t wait for the Breeders Crown, don’t really care now!!!
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will we see some bridge jumpers tonight
has to be at least 7 races( maybe more) where there are 6 or 7 horse fields and a heavy chalk fav
2 so far 1st one no prob but Grace Hill just finished 4th with 37000 out of 40000 ...
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these elims for the most part are horrific
our first jumper goes down
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Grace hill..bridge jump bounce...will look for BETTER effort saturday next
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I am so relieved McNair got 4th and qualified. For a minute there, I almost gave a shit. WTF was that all about?
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Grace hill..bridge jump bounce...will look for BETTER effort saturday next
Can't be any worse.
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that kind of bs would not happen in the tbreds breeders cup
no elim bs, just line up the best and go one heat for the cash
disgusting drive/stiff/wait till the final $ on grace hill but the show prices were kind of funny
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tmbz1 Terrible for the few average fans we have left. I guess not everybody can get beat and look like they tried at the same time.
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So far 2 off the charts drives for Big Dexter, masterfull drives with Kobe’s G & 49 -1 A buck
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Jenn Bon looking good. tmbz1 You don't see too many trainers wearing high heels and carrying a purse in the winners circle.
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JMO she looks much better from behind
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Why are the 2nd quarters so slow? There hasn't been one faster than 29 seconds yesterday or today. Even when the pace is contested. When it's not there have been many over 30 seconds. Just doesn't seem right for this caliber of horse.
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No more stopwatches?
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It does look windy there. Not enough to justify 59.2 half in the aged mare trot, but maybe not the best of conditions. These races are honestly hard to watch.
Also, I would contend this is one of the weakest bunch of 3yo colt trotters we've seen in a while.
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what the hell is up with this track...some weird half times and its like some horses dont really like racing on the surface
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Confederate was not impressive. Had to work down the stretch against a bunch of nobodies
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agreed
hmmmmm
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Jenny BonBon looking like a $50 an hour piece in the winners circle with Zanatta
she looked great and I would like to see her come home with her first BC next week
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she looked great and I would like to see her come home with her first BC next week
Well, her, or whomever it is that actually trains the horses.
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24.4 last Q for Trace in the 13th?
wow was he good tonight
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I'm not sure It's My Show can beat a 15 claimer right now.
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How about more BBC talk.
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Yannick and McNair saying Hoosier is the worst place for breeders crown. Both laughing at the track surface and they don’t have a paddock blacksmith and they will never come back to hoosier for these races. They said plainridge is better then Hoosier
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Confederate was not impressive. Had to work down the stretch against a bunch of nobodies
Maybe Since the late night blood draw something has changed???
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Maybe Since the late night blood draw something has changed???
It's the track and look at Its My Show. Confederate still beats him by half a dozen. That track is a shit show. Lot of good horses from out of town appeared to have trouble with it
For some reason it is different than it has been this time around, any thoughts?
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I'm not sure It's My Show can beat a 15 claimer right now.
Wicked last quarter and IMS tried his heart out. You could clearly see him wincing and trying to get away from pain, right front.
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Yannick and McNair saying Hoosier is the worst place for breeders crown. Both laughing at the track surface and they don’t have a paddock blacksmith and they will never come back to hoosier for these races. They said plainridge is better then Hoosier
Having a breeders crown at Hoosier is like the NFL having the super bowl at Joe Shithead High School
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Wicked last quarter and IMS tried his heart out. You could clearly see him wincing and trying to get away from pain, right front.
I agree.
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It's the track and look at Its My Show. Confederate still beats him by half a dozen. That track is a shit show. Lot of good horses from out of town appeared to have trouble with it
For some reason it is different than it has been this time around, any thoughts?
Sticky surface to much moisture? Change in the weather at night and ground cooling effect? Could be many variables.
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Confederate was not impressive. Had to work down the stretch against a bunch of nobodies
Ok, Was Confederate as impressive in victory as he has been in others. NO, but you can spin it around and say the fact that he won at all was impressive. Threw his head once on the backstretch and seemed to hit a high gear trying to cruise to the leaders into the turn, then he did work hard, but won clear in a legit last quarter.Yes, Timmy was cracking and popped the plugs. The start before he showed high speed after injury and it's been a long season and he has answered every bell. I would be shocked at this point if he lost the final. Timmy seemed cool with everything over all in the interview.
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Ok, Was Confederate as impressive in victory as he has been in others. NO, but you can spin it around and say the fact that he won at all was impressive. Threw his head once on the backstretch and seemed to hit a high gear trying to cruise to the leaders into the turn, then he did work hard, but won clear in a legit last quarter.Yes, Timmy was cracking and popped the plugs. The start before he showed high speed after injury and it's been a long season and he has answered every bell. I would be shocked at this point if he lost the final. Timmy seemed cool with everything over all in the interview.
And the final will be his very defeat. you heard it here first!
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Harris pays $525,000. for El Ray and never inspected him pre-sale WOW.
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And the final will be his very defeat. you heard it here first!
Would I faint dead away if that happened? NO! But I still believe after a start over Hoosier, combined with Pelling magic, he will gut out the last and maybe most important win. We will see.
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Harris pays $525,000. for El Ray and never inspected him pre-sale WOW.
If I paid 525K, I would have X-Rayed him from top to bottom.
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The most impressive horse of the night as far as the 3 year old pacers was Coach Stefanos.
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I know its not popular to say but these races should be held at the Meadowlands almost every year. Its the premier showcase track and gets the most wagered (only Mohawk ever comes close).
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Harris pays $525,000. for El Ray and never inspected him pre-sale WOW.
People buy horses on ongait all the time without inspecting -- I don't understand it.
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I know its not popular to say but these races should be held at the Meadowlands almost every year. Its the premier showcase track and gets the most wagered (only Mohawk ever comes close).
tmbz1
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The most impressive horse of the night as far as the 3 year old pacers was Coach Stefanos.
I don't know what's going on at Hoosier but there's no way he came home in 24.2.
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Do you actually think EL Ray was not examined from head to toe...lol lol
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I know its not popular to say but these races should be held at the Meadowlands almost every year. Its the premier showcase track and gets the most wagered (only Mohawk ever comes close).
Correct. The Meadowlands is the only harness track that is still relevant. Why would you have showcase races at tracks where nobody even knows exist. For example, having a million dollar trot at Yonkers is a joke. There were more people at Costco when those horses went to the gate.
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I know its not popular to say but these races should be held at the Meadowlands almost every year. Its the premier showcase track and gets the most wagered (only Mohawk ever comes close).
I agree. Yannick and McNair said they will never come back to hoosier again. This place is a joke.
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Hoosier is NOT a place for the Breeder's Crown and the USTA has to get their act together and realize that. The Kentucky Derby, the Preakness, and the Belmont, are all at the same tracks for a reason as the Breeder's Crown should ALWAYS be at the Meadowlands, as it is the most successful night time betting track in the country. Hoosier is not going to promote harness racing. Woodbine is not as successful either as the Meadowlands is for these stakes races. The Hambletonian has been and always should be, at the Meadowlands as well.
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Hoosier is NOT a place for the Breeder's Crown and the USTA has to get their act together and realize that. The Kentucky Derby, the Preakness, and the Belmont, are all at the same tracks for a reason as the Breeder's Crown should ALWAYS be at the Meadowlands, as it is the most successful night time betting track in the country. Hoosier is not going to promote harness racing. Woodbine is not as successful either as the Meadowlands is for these stakes races. The Hambletonian has been and always should be, at the Meadowlands as well.
Right on point
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I don't get how horses were pacing or trotting 25 to 26 to the quarter and thru a turn and then 29 to 30 the next quarter in a straightaway race after race. I saw their manes blowing a bit but were they racing into a gale wind down the back? i know a few of you were there. Was it crazy windy? Consequently being pushed home a bit? What's up ?
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I was there, windy but not crazy, unless the unprotected areas were much windier. Actually the wind did pick up until half way through the card.
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tmbz1
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My observations fwiw:
1.) Confederate definitely had issues with the surface; he threw in some extra steps and was not getting good "hold"...I am sure Brett will have a farrier there in no time flat and then they will very carefully check the weather report and how the surface plays the night before he races.
2.) I have to believe that there are a lot of owners who are really upset that their horses either did not get to pick their post positions (by not winning) or make it out of the eliminations (by not finishing high enough) due to their drivers not pulling a right line through a 59 second or 1 minute middle half, while their horse was sitting 4, 5, 6 or worse. I think it was Fug who asked whether these drivers were carrying stopwatches?? GREAT question...what were they thinking?? Too many turned it into a last 3/8 or 1/4 sprint and even if one had the horse capable of racing the fastest mile, that horse may not have been capable of sprinting the fastest..too many to name.
3.) There is no doubt that "home track" horses performed better than they might have been handicapped:....Coach Stefanos, Dashing Danny, Ponda Warrior, Helpfirstedition
4.) Logan Park has been a monster up at Woodbine and looked very solid today. Alrajah One IT better have his best game next week!
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Here comes Fug!
Totally agree about Confederate ( and many others over the 2 nights' festivities ) having a difficult time with the track. He seemed a bit uncomfortable pushing off and then he violently shook his head as they straightened out down the back. He hit a very good gear grinding to the leaders but it seemed like it took him longer to cover the ground than usual. Completely agree a very good farrier will be imported to fix things.
My stopwatch comment was actually more of a comment and rather snarky than a question, when someone asked why the horses were going these pedestrian halves. These guys know exactly how fast they are going quarter by quarter almost to the step, so I was kinda saying maybe they needed to carry stop watches like all the drivers used to hit the oolldd days.
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Shout out to Lucpark for running Frankie Frankie.
He wasn't far off Coach S this year and I hope we see him next year in the LP stable.
Small, achieveable 3 to 4 improvement sees him competitive at a high level next year.
Sporting, class guy Lucpark is.
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The last two nights have shown just how boring racing on big tracks is. Put those same races on a 5/8 or 1/2 and they would have been much more exciting.
your a fckin idiot..
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agreed
that stretch is just too long
your a bigger fckin nitwit for agreeing with the first jackass
track is to long what u want short track racing where winner is determined by a draw ..
learn the fckin game shithead ..
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Shout out to Lucpark for running Frankie Frankie.
He wasn't far off Coach S this year and I hope we see him next year in the LP stable.
Small, achieveable 3 to 4 improvement sees him competitive at a high level next year.
Sporting, class guy Lucpark is.
he not been himslef for about three weeks ,,ran great in last leg of sires and race before but came up empty last 2 races,,,
this game will break your heart and wallet
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watch the races you dick
the track causes horses to get too far spread out
you need a track like the big m where the turn can allow them to bunch up and have some exciting finishes
seems you have a bias and love for that track , but it sucks
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tmbz1 tmbz1 to your second paragraph especially
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Wizard..You are 'CLUELESS'! ,,"Hambletonian has always been a the Meadowlands" 73cv.2 ...Try Syracuse State Fair, Lexington, Goshen Good Time Park, Empire, Race Track, + DuQuoin BEFORE it went to M[1]
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I believe it has to be on a track where they go around 2 turns.
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Hoosier is NOT a place for the Breeder's Crown and the USTA has to get their act together and realize that. The Kentucky Derby, the Preakness, and the Belmont, are all at the same tracks for a reason as the Breeder's Crown should ALWAYS be at the Meadowlands, as it is the most successful night time betting track in the country. Hoosier is not going to promote harness racing. Woodbine is not as successful either as the Meadowlands is for these stakes races. The Hambletonian has been and always should be, at the Meadowlands as well.
I honestly don't agree with this. I think it should be at a different track all the time. The Breeder's Cups move, do they not?
ETA: With the stipulation that it be a 5/8s track or bigger. I can see that a half mile would be problematic for the reasons of draw, etc.
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So I named nine horses likely to win or be bet as such in 3rd post of this topic...Four of them lost..Twin B Joe Fresh [1-9] Sylvia Hanover [1-5] Grace Hill [1-5] M+M's Dream [1-5] You can blame it on it being eliminations and that loooonnnggg ass Hoosier stretch. The other won..Geocentric [1-5] Jiggy Jog [1-9] Tattoo Artist [1-9] Bythemissile [3-5] Confederate [1-9]
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A few horses were simply either not in shape or packed in it for the year...
Oh Well, Voukefalas, Hungry Angel Boy, Redwood Hanover, Little Rocket Man, Point of Perfect, almost all the 3yo Canadian trotters, Christchurch, Venerate
Where was Ken Hanover? Where was Seven Colors?
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A few horses were simply either not in shape or packed in it for the year...
Oh Well, Voukefalas, Hungry Angel Boy, Redwood Hanover, Little Rocket Man, Point of Perfect, almost all the 3yo Canadian trotters, Christchurch, Venerate
Where was Ken Hanover? Where was Seven Colors?
Ken Hanover wasn't eligible
RACE 10 - Pocono Downs At Mohegan Pennsylvania - PA - October 21, 2023
Conditions: "John Simpson, Sr. Memorial" 3 Year Old Colts & Geldings "The Albatross" 2nd division of 3
Purse: 32,700
7 Ken Hanover 7 2°/H 1/1Q 1/1Q 1/1 1/T 1:50.2 27.1 *0.80 Tyler Buter Roland Mallar
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How can you not have your horse eligible for BC
Good grief
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Wizard..You are 'CLUELESS'! ,,"Hambletonian has always been a the Meadowlands" 73cv.2 ...Try Syracuse State Fair, Lexington, Goshen Good Time Park, Empire, Race Track, + DuQuoin BEFORE it went to M[1]
To quantify, for the past 42 years, since 1981, and it should remain so, just in case the USTA gets any ridiculous idea to move it.
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PLEASE , lets not compare the tbred breeders cup to our feeble attempt of the breeders crown
they have multiple tracks that can easily handle the event and they have some in nice weather areas( harness does not)
and in those areas they have a real following for their sport, california, kentucky,new york, florida, people go and they bet !!
our only hope is to make it a success at the big m
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Have read on here of Hoosier's purses suffering due to taking on Breeder's Crown. Don't think they can lower them much more at M[1]. Gural doesn't want it..Just the betting license. Personally don't do the M[1] .Possible exception Hambo Day. Mecca of harness racing my ass. Just another track with extra amateur races thrown in,
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Here's some numbers to back that..BATAVIA..ye s I said BATAVIA last night $136,000 in purses 13 races Roughly $10,504 per race... M[1] Last night..$154,000 in purses ..14 races $11,000 per race..Just another track.
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Here's some numbers to back that..BATAVIA..ye s I said BATAVIA last night $136,000 in purses 13 races Roughly $10,504 per race... M[1] Last night..$154,000 in purses ..14 races $11,000 per race..Just another track.
If Batavia wasn't subsidized by a casino, their purses would be zero.
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Couldn't agree more..not many tracks you can't say that about...Not here to promote Batavia by any stretch but a good example of just an average track.. But those 'ARE' the stone cold facts..or should I say the 'BITTER TRUTH'? tmbz1
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Couldn't agree more..not many tracks you can't say that about...Not here to promote Batavia by any stretch but a good example of just an average track.. But those 'ARE' the stone cold facts..or should I say the 'BITTER TRUTH'? tmbz1
Meadowlands handle averaged over 3 million for 2023. It would take Batavia 8 cards to reach 3 million.
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If Batavia wasn't subsidized by a casino, their purses would be zero.
Didn't I hear Batavia was about to go extinct just before the "Slot Fairy " rescued it?
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Didn't I hear Batavia was about to go extinct just before the "Slot Fairy " rescued it?
Yes, just like YR. I was actually being generous. Last night, the second race at the Meadowlands outhandled last nights whole card at Batavia.
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Oh my goodness. Poor Gerry Sarama ngc3
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Yup, strangely[perhaps out of habit] people are willing to support the self -imposed 'SAVIOR'S track. Tough to prove but I think there's a consensus that a great chunk of that 'HANDLE' comes from Syndicate, 'Whale' type entities that are given special considerations. But from a horseman's perspective,don't see the extra attraction...Can't be cheap or fun to get in and out of there. Like they could give rat's ass how much is wagered. Thus the very 'AVERAGE' [at best] cards..Nice back and forth..No offense. Just don't like em.
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valid points
i am not concerned who owns what tracks or personalities or who bets what
my point being if harness racing is not strong in new jersey the sport will rapidly decline and the big m is the only track, the breeding part is coming back
Ohio and Indiana will not carry the sport
pa in decline
ny holding on
and Kentucky is fantastic but its Kentucky
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Much is said, and rightfully so: What happens if and/or when the slot $$ dries up at these numerous tracks? To your point, what happens when Gural passes? He's no spring chicken. Is there a plan B for M[1]?
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Much is said, and rightfully so: What happens if and/or when the slot $$ dries up at these numerous tracks? To your point, what happens when Gural passes? He's no spring chicken. Is there a plan B for M[1]?
It could well be before Gural passes, as NJ has been sending the Meadowlands a $6 million annual purse subsidy, which is year to year and could disappear after the 5 year NJ $100mm racing support bill is over (as it is, it goes year to year..but I believe 2024 is the last year.)
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An amusement park maybe?
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Fuguzzi.. One you at least a partial apology...Was thinking before your post that I have made a number of posts in this topic, unrelated in many ways to the BC. Got steered by talk of possible BC sites. Can see how it can and does happen.
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No need to apologize for anything. It is so easy to veer off, overlap and deviate from a core topic on here. In fact, I think adding layers of different info that are offshoots from the original topic enhances the discussions. I would qualify that by saying as long as it stays confined to harness racing in some way. I think we are an awesome site as long as the name calling doesnt happen tmbz1 There are some great contributors on here - most in fact and i look forward to communicating every day.
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Yup, strangely[perhaps out of habit] people are willing to support the self -imposed 'SAVIOR'S track. Tough to prove but I think there's a consensus that a great chunk of that 'HANDLE' comes from Syndicate, 'Whale' type entities that are given special considerations. But from a horseman's perspective,don't see the extra attraction...Can't be cheap or fun to get in and out of there. Like they could give rat's ass how much is wagered. Thus the very 'AVERAGE' [at best] cards..Nice back and forth..No offense. Just don't like em.
You are wrong on so many levels, I wonder if you have ever been to a racetrack. Firstly, who gives a rats ass(your words) where the handle is coming from as long as it's coming. The Meadowlands doesn't have a sugar daddy casino to pump up its purses. Yes, the state has kicked in but that is a small percentage of what it takes to pay out the purses and keep the lights on. Secondly, whether the cards are average or not, they averaged over 3 million in handle in 2023. No other harness track can make that claim so apparently average cards aren't an issue. I personally think the cards are fine and I can promise you, as a person who raced there for years, it is still the hardest place to win a race. And finally, having a large handle is also advantageous because it is the only place large bettors can wager. How the fuck can anyone make a 10-20 grand wager at any other track without blowing up the tote board.
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You make great points. In the day, it was definitely the toughest place to win a race. The talent and horsemanship was so deep, it is hard to quantify. Do you feel it is still the toughest place to win. Another question? As somebody asked earlier, exactly what does happen once JG passes away unfortunately? Is the whole "integrity thing" gone with him and all the shady characters ( pardon the pun - great racehorse ) return? one more question? Does Brett Beckwith take a shot at the BigM soon?
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I said 'THE HORSEMAN' could give a rats's ass..I stand by that..Most mock gamblers.. Now if you take away the supplements ie state or casino $$..they might then..Believe me though. To question if I've ever been to a track, it's truly laughable. Just tallied em up... 21 harness tracks not including 'AT LEAST' a dozen fair tracks..7 t-bred tracks..5 dog tracks. Don't figure I'm going to be affecting pools too greatly wherever I bet. Hey, you like em..have at em, while they are still around.
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You make great points. In the day, it was definitely the toughest place to win a race. The talent and horsemanship was so deep, it is hard to quantify. Do you feel it is still the toughest place to win. Another question? As somebody asked earlier, exactly what does happen once JG passes away unfortunately? Is the whole "integrity thing" gone with him and all the shady characters ( pardon the pun - great racehorse ) return? one more question? Does Brett Beckwith take a shot at the BigM soon?
It is still the hardest place to win a race. I have seen countless horses dominate at their "home track" and decide to take a shot at M1. Most fail. 1/4 mile stretch separates the contenders from the pretenders. If Gural retires, I think it will be run in a similar fashion. I don't know enough about Beckwith to know if he would be successful. I raced at Foxboro against his grandfather and I can tell you he was damn good but he never made it on the big stage. I would say Brett needs to try and get his foot in the door during the winter meet when many of the stars are away.
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I said 'THE HORSEMAN' could give a rats's ass..I stand by that..Most mock gamblers.. Now if you take away the supplements ie state or casino $$..they might then..Believe me though. To question if I've ever been to a track, it's truly laughable. Just tallied em up... 21 harness tracks not including 'AT LEAST' a dozen fair tracks..7 t-bred tracks..5 dog tracks. Don't figure I'm going to be affecting pools too greatly wherever I bet. Hey, you like em..have at em, while they are still around.
Well, apparently you are not a horseman because any horseman I know is always concerned about the handle. Handle is what ultimately puts food on our tables. Look at Monticello. Purses dropped starting tomorrow. I am sure there are plenty of horsemen concerned.
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I'll defer to your expertise, for no I'm not a horseman [just an avid fan for @55 yrs], but most are just riding the free $$ wave. Not thinking of gamblers but more so politicians, knowing they'll be the ones deciding their fate.
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It is still the hardest place to win a race. I have seen countless horses dominate at their "home track" and decide to take a shot at M1. Most fail. 1/4 mile stretch separates the contenders from the pretenders. If Gural retires, I think it will be run in a similar fashion. I don't know enough about Beckwith to know if he would be successful. I raced at Foxboro against his grandfather and I can tell you he was damn good but he never made it on the big stage. I would say Brett needs to try and get his foot in the door during the winter meet when many of the stars are away.
Bert Beckwith was indeed a great driver and horseman. Remember Mel? Had a trotter named Mr. Nashua. Loved that horse. Yes, I was thinking Brett might take a run at the winter meet. I think he would do well right off. PS, very sad that Bert hung himself at 41, I think over a woman.
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I'll defer to your expertise, for no I'm not a horseman [just an avid fan for @55 yrs], but most are just riding the free $$ wave. Not thinking of gamblers but more so politicians, knowing they'll be the ones deciding their fate.
Horse racing gets a bad rap when it comes to the so called hand outs. All industries are searching and taking hand outs in one form or another. Whether it is tax breaks, bail outs, bankruptcy protection etc. that is how business entities operate in todays world. 95% of the products you buy are made by companies that have received billions in incentives. Companies are lured to Europe and Asia by those governments with sweetheart deals such as no taxes, free land, no labor enforcement etc.
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That reminds me of the Trump backers [I voted for him before..[NO WAY now] You bring up one of his transgressions and they say oh well, Hillary did this, Clinton did that, Hunter did this, or they all do it. Well , fact is harness 'IS' being fueled by those subsidies and not by your 'HANDLE'. I've lived thru the entire cards of 2-3 k purses here in Ohio before they got the slot $$. If they take it away, they'll be right back there here and in alot of places. Horseman like you will be forced to make life decisions.
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That reminds me of the Trump backers [I voted for him before..[NO WAY now] You bring up one of his transgressions and they say oh well, Hillary did this, Clinton did that, Hunter did this, or they all do it. Well , fact is harness 'IS' being fueled by those subsidies and not by your 'HANDLE'. I've lived thru the entire cards of 2-3 k purses here in Ohio before they got the slot $$. If they take it away, they'll be right back there here and in alot of places. Horseman like you will be forced to make life decisions.
When you start up your Chevy, Ford or Chrysler today. if you're not too old to drive, just remember, those companies were all rescued from extinction by government handouts.
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Sorry, didn't mean to imply that you are a Trump supporter..Meant to say ' They' give those rebuttals. Yes, like most on here, I'm old..Not quite that old..Just was going to the track pretty young. I would say to you: Cars are vital...Harness racing is not!
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Sorry, didn't mean to imply that you are a Trump supporter..Meant to say ' They' give those rebuttals. Yes, like most on here, I'm old..Not quite that old..Just was going to the track pretty young. I would say to you: Cars are vital...Harness racing is not!
The point was all companies take subsidies if they can. You bashed Jeff Gural as being a self imposed savior(your words) but his purses are fueled by HANDLE. Something you fail to understand since you are in Ohio where there isn't any.
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The difference is 99% of the general public (a/k/a voters) could care less if harness racing existed. They would rather those dollars go to other things so their taxes do not go up. That day is coming.
Very true but until that day arrives, handouts are needed to survive.
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I'll watch the replays this week for the finals. I stay away from elims ---
Did see on Saturday.s 5.25 hour card that out of the 15 races.......
Only 2 winners were further back than third ( the third place horse was Confederate, the other 12 races horses were on the lead or sat second ) at the top of the stretch. Essentially the race was already over at the 3/8ths pole. No movement.
pretty exciting for any newcomers.
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Very true but until that day arrives, handouts are needed to survive.
If you're 5 Foot 3 and weigh 300 pounds, my taxes ought not pay for your bags of fudge rounds.
Welfare is Welfare
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If you're 5 Foot 3 and weigh 300 pounds, my taxes ought not pay for your bags of fudge rounds.
Welfare is Welfare
Listen Einstein, your fight is with the politicians that approve the welfare and not the recipients.
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Self imposed savior..You bet your ass those were my words..And 'HE' moans about losing $$ with your handle and apparently the admiitedly highest handle in harness racing gets you just above Batavia..HANDLE ngc3
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What you need to understand is those handouts will go away at some point. In PA, well over 80% of purses comes from subsidies. Every time there isn't enough money in the budget for roads, bridges, and schools, the politicians look at that money. Eventually they are going to take it. It is probably already too late but harness racing better figure out how to support itself before that happens.
Also, most tracks are now owned by casino companies. The keep racing because the are required to. If that requirement was rescinded, what do you think would happen?
Ask yourself what would happen if this issue was put on the ballot. Do you think people would vote for harness racing or for using the money for roads, bridges, and schools (and not raise their taxes). The industry must wake up or it will wake up and find a $10,000 purse is less than $2,000.
An industry cannot exit long-term without customers and harness racing has turned its back on its customers.
I agreed with you.
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Self imposed savior..You bet your ass those were my words..And 'HE' moans about losing $$ with your handle and apparently the admiitedly highest handle in harness racing gets you just above Batavia..HANDLE ngc3
Batavia purses are fueled by a casino. The Meadowlands is not.
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the amount of subsidy given to harness racing to keep Americans employed and off welfare is a one one thousand( or less) of the dollars your government has sent to the man who wears sweat pants in the Ukraine
any idea where those billions have gone, any accounting for who gets it ....nope
a little cash going to harness racing is not going to change the balance of power anywhere
let it be and enjoy
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true, so do those also
its all just monopoly money
all the covid money
'all the money going to Ukraine and other assorted third world shit holes
it never gets paid back , just kick the can down the road
so why should harness racing suffer, a sport that keeps people employed and that people genuinely love
and stop the obsession with how few people are at the live track , how many people are at the online poker site, how many at the amazon store, correct the answer is zero
things have changed, business models are different today
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What most of you knowitalls don't realize is that the harness racing "handouts" come from either a casino or government and is state sanctioned, not federal. In other words, why the fuck should some yahoo from Ohio bash The Meadowlands and Jeff Gural. The only people that have a dog in that fight are NJ residents, as the last time I checked, Ohio wasn't sending any aid to NJ harness racing.
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thanks alsoeligible
if in fact the purses etc are funded by slots than i say great, fantastic, so it should be
remember that was the tax the casinos had to pay to open up on the racetrack sites, people keep forgetting that
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Ask yourself what would happen if this issue was put on the ballot. Do you think people would vote for harness racing or for using the money for roads, bridges, and schools (and not raise their taxes). The industry must wake up or it will wake up and find a $10,000 purse is less than $2,000.
If you are going to ask this ballot question at least get the facts straight
The question would be. Would you prefer the $$ to go to local agriculture if to some casino owner in another part of the world?
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but the money you are talking about does not go to some casino owner in another part of the world, they give it to the horse industry
it goes to local horse people and has a multiplier effect in the state in which they live and work
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but the money you are talking about does not go to some casino owner in another part of the world, they give it to the horse industry
it goes to local horse people and has a multiplier effect in the state in which they live and work
Exactly. Some of these people don’t understand it is basically a tax on casino’s to operate in the state. If horse racing loses the money it will be more casino profits