HORSEPLOP.COM
General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: theokodjak26 on October 24, 2023, 08:09:17 PM
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Since we have many trainers on Plop, what can you tell us fans only regarding the training a trotter vs a pacer. I am asking if there are differences once both gaited horses are racing and not newbies.
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Trotters 100 percent about shoeing...it's that simple...off course you need a big engine...but shoeing makes the difference in equal talented trotter
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Trotters make for more interesting training.
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Trotters - shoeing, balancing, patience
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Trotters grey hair.
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Cute 73cv.2
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Here’s what I find amazing about trotters, Everyone am sure knows what penny loafer shoes are & that people put pennies on the tongue when wearing them. Now just imagine that you put quarters in the tongue instead of pennies and when you picked up your foot you could feel the weight difference.
You can literally take of 1 oz toe weights off and put 2 ozs on and the horse will know difference and trot clean. I think that’s absolutely amazing
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Pacer...... Hang a set of hopples on him and gas him to the hill! No real secret
Trotter.....Balan ce and finesse. Lay of the drugs. takes a horseman to train.
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Bea Farber quote about driving a trotter.
"To drive a trotter first you got to tighten up your bra straps".
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Bea Farber quote about driving a trotter.
"To drive a trotter first you got to tighten up your bra straps".
[/quote 11.wp
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I'm noticing pacers on the track and ongait.com with four inch plus toes in front. Is this some new trend? I always remember a pacer's toes in front were 3 1/4 maybe 3 1/2 tops 3 5/8.
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My favorite trot drivers , in no particular order Campbell, LaChance. Patterson jr, Herve, Hennessey, Pierce
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It's much easier today to race a trotter than it was 40 years ago due to better track conditions, trotting hopples, better boots and better bred. If you want to laugh, ask some of the kids today if their trotter is line gaited or passing gaited. They will look at you like you are from mars.
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Careful who you ask. They might say double gaited.
But seriously, you make a great point/points
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It's much easier today to race a trotter than it was 40 years ago due to better track conditions, trotting hopples, better boots and better bred. If you want to laugh, ask some of the kids today if their trotter is line gaited or passing gaited. They will look at you like you are from mars.
Very true. Unfortunately, there are a number of trotting stallions with fertility problems. Hopefully an inflex of French trotting blood in the years to come will help remedy that. Also, no trotting hopples in France.
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Very true. Unfortunately, there are a number of trotting stallions with fertility problems. Hopefully an inflex of French trotting blood in the years to come will help remedy that. Also, no trotting hopples in France.
No hopples, no shoes and no whips.
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I'm noticing pacers on the track and ongait.com with four inch plus toes in front. Is this some new trend? I always remember a pacer's toes in front were 3 1/4 maybe 3 1/2 tops 3 5/8.
Very true. Years ago, short toes were the norm for pacers but there has been a lot of research that now states that longer toes mean more surface area is contacting the track which creates more speed and more efficiency. I guess the best way to decribe the theory is if you watch car racing. Their tires are wide for the same reason which is more surface area contacting the track.
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Very true. Years ago, short toes were the norm for pacers but there has been a lot of research that now states that longer toes mean more surface area is contacting the track which creates more speed and more efficiency. I guess the best way to decribe the theory is if you watch car racing. Their tires are wide for the same reason which is more surface area contacting the track.
Interesting thank you. Would you know if angles are still consistent with the past in a pacer? Or to go along with the longer toe are they lowering angles in hopes of a longer stride?
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Interesting thank you. Would you know if angles are still consistent with the past in a pacer? Or to go along with the longer toe are they lowering angles in hopes of a longer stride?
Angles are always a juggling act. They are definitely lower than 30-40 years ago but the horse is still made out of flesh and blood and if you venture into an extremely low angle, you are subjecting the leg to trauma that might be injurious.
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Angles are always a juggling act. They are definitely lower than 30-40 years ago but the horse is still made out of flesh and blood and if you venture into an extremely low angle, you are subjecting the leg to trauma that might be injurious.
Often the culprit of bowed tendons.
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Often the culprit of bowed tendons.
Absolutely and if you notice one of the major differences between today and 40 years ago is how many horses run down today. That is a result of lower angles which stretches the suspensory over time and ultimately causes them to run down.
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Absolutely and if you notice one of the major differences between today and 40 years ago is how many horses run down today. That is a result of lower angles which stretches the suspensory over time and ultimately causes them to run down.
Yes, a lot easier to see on slow motion stretch drives.
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Yes, a lot easier to see on slow motion stretch drives.
You're not kidding. It's almost frightening to see the slow mo shot of the way these horse's legs land. Granted, it's not as violent as a T-Bred but I wonder how there aren't more catastrophic injuries in harness racing when I see the slow mo shot as they are crossing the wire.
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The breed and intelligence of the trotter has advanced so much in 40 years. When I was starting out in the game, you had about 85% pacers vs. trotters.
When you broke a trotter, he may go well into May before he was safe in his gate and ready to drop down in training times. You may need to go 3 or 4 trips to get him comfortable in his gate.
Today, what a magnificent creature a trotter is. A great deal of natural ability. Back in time, you may see a good deal of well bred trotters racing on the pace. They just could not hold it together. Today, it is very rare . Of course trotting hopples play a large roll in this but still, seeing one trot bearfoot with no hopples and his head down a bit is something of beauty and grace.
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trotters are all about confidence if they dont have it they wont perform which is why it takes more time for them to devlop
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Great point, Jazzy. If they start hitting and you don't help them...
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Absolutely and if you notice one of the major differences between today and 40 years ago is how many horses run down today. That is a result of lower angles which stretches the suspensory over time and ultimately causes them to run down.
Alot of successful trainers have no clue that the two are related! The ART of shoeing and Balancing is the last thing on the list when trying to help a horse make more speed!Gr8 call Mike!👍
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As I started this topic, I want to thank all the trainers who have contributed so far. As usual as an owner/fan for the past 50 plus years I never get tired of hearing what the sport is really all about and the effort it takes to have succeded.
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Angles are always a juggling act. They are definitely lower than 30-40 years ago but the horse is still made out of flesh and blood and if you venture into an extremely low angle, you are subjecting the leg to trauma that might be injurious.
Sadly 1/2 the so called blacksmiths shoeing today don’t even use an angle gauge. These youngsters think the shoes are premade for the horse and rasp the hoof to fit
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Sadly 1/2 the so called blacksmiths shoeing today don’t even use an angle gauge. These youngsters think the shoes are premade for the horse and rasp the hoof to fit
And charge two to three times more than they did 40 years ago for half the job.
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One of the top Standarbred farriers (now retired ) who used to do Tbred specialty work like quartercrack patches as well, told me today when I read to him some of the comments on here by phone said "Any blacksmith who needs to use a gauge after shoeing the same horse 2 or 3 times, should find something else to do" His words, not mine, so don't jump on me. just thought I'd add to the convo.
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One of the top Standarbred farriers (now retired ) who used to do Tbred specialty work like quartercrack patches as well, told me today when I read to him some of the comments on here by phone said "Any blacksmith who needs to use a gauge after shoeing the same horse 2 or 3 times, should find something else to do" His words, not mine, so don't jump on me. just thought I'd add to the convo.
Hank Joseph, who I consider one of the best always used a gauge.
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One of the top Standarbred farriers (now retired ) who used to do Tbred specialty work like quartercrack patches as well, told me today when I read to him some of the comments on here by phone said "Any blacksmith who needs to use a gauge after shoeing the same horse 2 or 3 times, should find something else to do" His words, not mine, so don't jump on me. just thought I'd add to the convo.
Sounds like Ian McKinley
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I never heard of hank Joseph. Ian McKinley I am definitely aware of, but no, not him.
Guy i spoke to had other things to say about toes and angles and racing barefoot. Nothing work sharing on here.
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I used John Santoro/ Billy K, Jerry Gold and if I had to Roy Smith btw
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I never heard of hank Joseph. Ian McKinley I am definitely aware of, but no, not him.
Guy i spoke to had other things to say about toes and angles and racing barefoot. Nothing work sharing on here.
Hank had a shop at M1 from about 1987 until the barn area closed. His shop was in between barns 12 and 13
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I was outta there in 1985 - grooming in those days = I was in 13B
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I was always a fan of the double gaited ones...then you don't have to choose, you can go either way.
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My favorite trot drivers , in no particular order Campbell, LaChance. Patterson jr, Herve, Hennessey, Pierce
Jeff Gregory won a lot of trot races for me. I thought he was one of the best trot drivers.
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Absolutely. I would say he was a superior trot driver and NYSS driver than Clint Galbraith, but you know what'll happen.
I just listed my top/top but Jeff Greogry always handled a trotter well
few others that were good - Howard Parker, Mickey McNichol, Zeke up at Monti and Ted Wing
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i worked for 2 different trainers one used a riding horse blacksmith who knew nothing about angles,toe length ect the other had a 80 horse stable and the blacksmith was not allowed to pull shoes off unless he was there to watch both men where very sucsessful
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I went to the blacksmith shop with my horses as often as time allowed. if not me, my best groom. Never were they dropped off and left alone.