HORSEPLOP.COM
General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: bodnarcny on March 10, 2024, 11:26:02 AM
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Is this really the place to attack people. Why not just post factual stuff. Talk about racing, training, horse care, track conditions, overnights, stake races. I could careless less if Nicole is pregnant (if true), who's banging who, who is charging sexual harassment, etc. I got to tell you this SCM debacle and the attack on him and his family is ruining the harness game. Mark Ford, Joe Faraldo, David Yarock and many others. From what I read Harness Racing is just one big Cartel. You wonder why you can't get the younger generation involved. The people (9 of 10) that I try to introduce to this business say its rigged. There's definitely rotten eggs in every game/sport/business. But if you tune into these threads (horseplop) everyone has a hand in the cookie jar in some way.
Just my opinion to the moderator: Don't kick anyone out. Just take down their offensive or nonsense post. PERIOD!
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Too many assholes like you try to silence everyone. If you don’t like a thread then just move on to the next. The sport is on a downward spiral and if someone wants to post on here about it they have a right too.
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THE BIG BARNS ARE SWALLOWING THE SMALL
SMALL STABLES REDUCING JUST TO CUT LOSES ITS ALMOST
IMPOSSIBLE TO BREAK EVEN LET ALONE MAKE MONEY ..
65 75 AND 100 A DAY PLUS PLUS PLUS .. ARE NOW THE NORM ALMOST EVERYWHERE
IMPOSSIBLE TO INVEST ,,UNLESS ITS WRITEOFF OR A PERSON HATES MONEY
NO INTEREST FROM YOUNGER FOLKS
TRACK ATTENDANCE IS DOWN EVERYWHERE UNLESS ITS A STAKES EVENT
TOO MANY HARNESS TRACKS ON EAST COAST,,AND TOO MANY WAYS FOR YOUNG CUSTOMERS TO DO OTHER THINGS BESIDES WATCHING TIME DRAG BETWEEN RACES..
EVERY TRACK DOES IT,,BIGM IS WORSE THAN MOST AT DRAGGING
HOOSIER AND MOHAWK NOT TO FAR BEHIND ..
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Trying to get my daughter and husband to go the harness track you’d think I was asking them to go to get teeth pulled.
Harness racing should do the following:
Between races, play music on the loudspeakers you hear at hockey games, baseball games, etc, etc.
Need to rebrand and do marketing of the young drivers on social media, tv, etc, etc.
Serve foods the millennials and gen-z kids like, e.g., craft beers, craft mixed drinks, etc, etc.
All of the aforementioned things need to be rolled out in a systematic way with advertising, tv, sports, and movie stars.
Not sure if these would work, but better than all of old guys looking around at each other all the time.
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I been posting here for a while and I enjoy when someone post something informative about harness racing past or present. I take this forum for what's it worth. I skip over personal attacks and negative comments. If that's what some people are into go right ahead. It's a free country. But that's not for me and I'm not here to judge other people. Harness racing has been a favorite past time of mine for many years as a fan and owner. And I will use this forum only as a place to add to that enjoyment.
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Trying to get my daughter and husband to go the harness track you’d think I was asking them to go to get teeth pulled.
Harness racing should do the following:
Between races, play music on the loudspeakers you hear at hockey games, baseball games, etc, etc.
Need to rebrand and do marketing of the young drivers on social media, tv, etc, etc.
Serve foods the millennials and gen-z kids like, e.g., craft beers, craft mixed drinks, etc, etc.
All of the aforementioned things need to be rolled out in a systematic way with advertising, tv, sports, and movie stars.
Not sure if these would work, but better than all of old guys looking around at each other all the time.
To some degree, all of these have been tried (marketing racing as a spectator sport) and the results have been miserable. Unless they lower the takeout to compete in the gambling world, nothing else matters. Racing is a gambling game, not a spectator sport
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To me the most important thing racing needs to do is clean up the chemical warfare and the only way to do it is get the owners involved by sitting their horses for the term of the suspension. Hit the owners in the pocketbook and things will start to change. Suspending Burke and then allowing him to put his dad or brother down as trainer is a complete joke
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The 2 dumbest things hear on this forum regularly
1) Punish the owners for a trainers transgression.
Why would I own horses if this was done? Instead, make the trainer change real. Maybe a different training center as a must.
2) The game is dead.
Really? M does 3 mil a night, Mohawk 2 mil.
The game isn't dead. Some of you guys just can't accept that it has changed. Get over it.
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The controversial posts about who's banging whom is interesting and the main attraction here at plops. Without the controversy plops would be a place that would be akin to a place you could come to to watch paint peel.
The controversial stuff is the gravy if you will of the Plop Thanksgiving day dinner.
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The 2 dumbest things hear on this forum regularly
1) Punish the owners for a trainers transgression.
Why would I own horses if this was done? Instead, make the trainer change real. Maybe a different training center as a must.
2) The game is dead.
Really? M does 3 mil a night, Mohawk 2 mil.
The game isn't dead. Some of you guys just can't accept that it has changed. Get over it.
OK...I'll buy this. I completely agree on # 2. However, # 1 has been argued for many years. I hear you, if an owner is going to get punished, penalized to the point that it hurts financially, and so on, sure, what incentive is there. But here's my question: What if the owner is involved with the trainer's transgressions? Duplicitous? It's a very slippery slope. When, where, and how do you hold owners accountable? Steinbrenner never got suspended when a player of his came up positive for steroids. No owner did from what I can remember.
However, what if a team owner was more involved? Directly involved? What if the team owner facilitated making the steroids available. They or their staff searched out, found the known doctors, maybe even paid them some money, not for steroids directly, but they paid them to be available. What if the team owner made the doctors available -- gave them access to the locker room, training staff, and so on -- who were writing the prescriptions? While he wasn't a team owner, and there was no union, didn't Vince McMahon get indicted for this?
My point is that this problem has gotten so egregious, I feel you have to start holding everyone accountable -- trainers, drivers, vets, farm owners, compounders and equine companies, and yes, at a certain point owners. Let's see how this Howard Taylor situation plays out. Remember, there were other owners on the "master" list that was part of the other charges, indictments, trials, etc.
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To me the most important thing racing needs to do is clean up the chemical warfare and the only way to do it is get the owners involved by sitting their horses for the term of the suspension. Hit the owners in the pocketbook and things will start to change. Suspending Burke and then allowing him to put his dad or brother down as trainer is a complete joke
Totally defeats the purpose of any regulatory action to begin with. tmbz1
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To me the most important thing racing needs to do is clean up the chemical warfare and the only way to do it is get the owners involved by sitting their horses for the term of the suspension. Hit the owners in the pocketbook and things will start to change. Suspending Burke and then allowing him to put his dad or brother down as trainer is a complete joke
Agreed. However, starting to suspend the owners, their horses, penalizing them, etc., is a very slippery slope. I own a horse, I send the horse to a trainer. I feel the trainer is honest, you don't, then what? My horse has a positive test, I know nothing about it, and I get suspended and so does my horse? Why? Because you didn't think my trainer was honest and I should have known better? Or because I simply made a bad decision with my trainer selection? No, there has to be a balance here.
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Totally defeats the purpose of any regulatory action to begin with. tmbz1
No it doesn't. It can't be the only thing. I agree, regulatory overhaul, action, and having it universal is first and foremost. I do think owner accountability is necessary when owners are duplicitous.
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Let me clarify. You are in a stable and a horse gets a positive test whether it is yours or another owners. At this time you and all owners in the stable are made aware of the positive and the suspension. You would be told that the next positive the trainer gets, not only is he fined/suspended but the horse that got the positive also may not race or be transferred to another trainer for the same period. You were warned but elected to stay so suffer the consequences. If an owner cannot race his horse for 30, 60, or 90 days watch what happens. Until the owners face potential penalties the fines and suspensions are a complete joke and its business as usual. I am not picking on Burke but if my info is correct he has had roughly 20 positives. Now you can tell me how he, his owners, or the horse was really punished
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Let me clarify. You are in a stable and a horse gets a positive test whether it is yours or another owners. At this time you and all owners in the stable are made aware of the positive and the suspension. You would be told that the next positive the trainer gets, not only is he fined/suspended but the horse that got the positive also may not race or be transferred to another trainer for the same period. You were warned but elected to stay so suffer the consequences. If an owner cannot race his horse for 30, 60, or 90 days watch what happens. Until the owners face potential penalties the fines and suspensions are a complete joke and its business as usual. I am not picking on Burke but if my info is correct he has had roughly 20 positives. Now you can tell me how he, his owners, or the horse was really punished
I could buy into something like this, potentially. I still feel an owner has to be directly involved in order to be punished. If not, we are going to be punishing owners on an arbitrary basis when they may have been completely innocent and now they are being punished for "picking a bad trainer" with "bad" being a very subjective term. Burke for example is not OK, but Linda Toscano is? Joe Holloway is OK but Brett Pelling is not? I don't know of one top trainer who has not had a positive. My question is what is the positive for? If it's therapeutic and it's an overage or timing issue, well that's one thing. If it's some designer or exotic drug, that's a completely different story. There's a lot of lines to be drawn here.
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The 2 dumbest things hear on this forum regularly
1) Punish the owners for a trainers transgression.
Why would I own horses if this was done? Instead, make the trainer change real. Maybe a different training center as a must.
2) The game is dead.
Really? M does 3 mil a night, Mohawk 2 mil.
The game isn't dead. Some of you guys just can't accept that it has changed. Get over it.
Forgot to add , if what I suggest is one of the dumbest things you hear, lets here your suggestion to help clean up the business or are you like most that likes to take shots from the grandstand rather than get your nose bloodied. I, along with others await your solution but for me I am not holding my breath
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Everyone understands that it's not just one fix that is going to solve this problem.
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No it doesn't. It can't be the only thing. I agree, regulatory overhaul, action, and having it universal is first and foremost. I do think owner accountability is necessary when owners are duplicitous.
To me if you hire a trainer he becomes your agent/ employee for whatever happens good or bad. Same as you hire someone to drive your truck and he becomes a bad driver and causes an accident. You as an owner are responsible also.
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To me if you hire a trainer he becomes your agent for whatever happens good or bad. Same as you hire someone to drive your truck and he causes an accident you as an owner is responsible.
Tough sell for me. Is this the equivalent of an "owner responsibility rule?" Complete and unconditional liability? Very tough sell. In your example, if I hire someone to drive...I am not letting them drive my truck. I am hiring them and their truck. They become responsible even though they were doing paid work for me. I have liability protection. You buy something from me. I hire fed ex to deliver it to you...I am not liable for that fed ex driver or truck. Regardless, complete and unconditional liability, you are putting me in the same position as an owner who purchased illegal meds, drugs, etc., and that is not fair in my opinion. I just can't see this flying without some differentiation and balance. A lot of innocent people can be immediately and conclusively guilty.
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If YOU don't want to be suspended as an owner,then do the homework and then make a decision on what trainer to use. The problem is that most guys are placing horses with the guys who are defying the laws of averages. The barns with 20 or more cannot obey the rules and keep a .375 or .400 average with out the nefarious activity! Like y'alls Momma said "If something looks to good to be true,it probably is!" 11.wp
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Forgot to add , if what I suggest is one of the dumbest things you hear, lets here your suggestion to help clean up the business or are you like most that likes to take shots from the grandstand rather than get your nose bloodied. I, along with others await your solution but for me I am not holding my breath
From what I see, if a horse must be transferred due to a positive, trainer changes must be "approved" by the judges.
Maybe we should have judges with balls who say "No, a transfer from Ron to Mickey is nit acceptable." Let's start there.
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I been posting here for a while and I enjoy when someone post something informative about harness racing past or present. I take this forum for what's it worth. I skip over personal attacks and negative comments. If that's what some people are into go right ahead. It's a free country. But that's not for me and I'm not here to judge other people. Harness racing has been a favorite past time of mine for many years as a fan and owner. And I will use this forum only as a place to add to that enjoyment.
tmbz1 tmbz1 tmbz1 tmbz1 tmbz1 tmbz1 tmbz1 tmbz1
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The controversial posts about who's banging whom is interesting and the main attraction here at plops. Without the controversy plops would be a place that would be akin to a place you could come to to watch paint peel.
The controversial stuff is the gravy if you will of the Plop Thanksgiving day dinner.
It is pretty funny that XYZ gets kicked out of here shortly after its learned Nicoles pregnant, Joey's moving west and XYZ's wife asked him to move out. Cause if you read his last threads here nothing was bad or really off color. And he didn't spam the board near as much as others. Total Bullshit! ADMIN got a call so you know who they're aligned with, maybe check the Bobby Bon Bon BK List again.
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The 2 dumbest things hear on this forum regularly
1) Punish the owners for a trainers transgression.
Why would I own horses if this was done? Instead, make the trainer change real. Maybe a different training center as a must.
2) The game is dead.
Really? M does 3 mil a night, Mohawk 2 mil.
The game isn't dead. Some of you guys just can't accept that it has changed. Get over it.
All owners have to deal with a trainer’s positives for bute and the like. The name of the game. As far as a major positive, you better discuss this with your trainer and draw your own conclusions.
As far as the 3 million—is it all real money from the harness racing fan base or computer algorithms, etc.??
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Question of the day—how many owners actually go to the barn and see their horse(s) and chat with their trainer?
3 out of 10??
5 out of 10??
8 out of 10??
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All owners have to deal with a trainer’s positives for bute and the like. The name of the game. As far as a major positive, you better discuss this with your trainer and draw your own conclusions.
As far as the 3 million—is it all real money from the harness racing fan base or computer
The track doesnt care who is betting, just how much.
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Is this really the place to attack people. Why not just post factual stuff. Talk about racing, training, horse care, track conditions, overnights, stake races. I could careless less if Nicole is pregnant (if true), who's banging who, who is charging sexual harassment, etc. I got to tell you this SCM debacle and the attack on him and his family is ruining the harness game. Mark Ford, Joe Faraldo, David Yarock and many others. From what I read Harness Racing is just one big Cartel. You wonder why you can't get the younger generation involved. The people (9 of 10) that I try to introduce to this business say its rigged. There's definitely rotten eggs in every game/sport/business. But if you tune into these threads (horseplop) everyone has a hand in the cookie jar in some way.
Just my opinion to the moderator: Don't kick anyone out. Just take down their offensive or nonsense post. PERIOD!
I heard this guy searches for teenage boys on tinder.
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From what I see, if a horse must be transferred due to a positive, trainer changes must be "approved" by the judges.
Maybe we should have judges with balls who say "No, a transfer from Ron to Mickey is nit acceptable." Let's start there.
A program change from Ron to Mickey is not a transfer. This has been the trainers suspension rule from the beginning. Back in the old days when it said "Stable: William Haughton, Trainer: Alfred Thomas" -- if there was a positive test, Apples took the hit, another trainer was listed, and the horse stayed in the barn. Been that way from the old days straight through the Meadowlands -- Greg Wright, the Remmen's, Doherty, Webster, Gagliardi, Silverman, all the major stables were listed in the program this way. If you want to make a dent in this, then you have to suspend the "head" trainer and put the entire operation out of business for the term of the suspension.