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General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: Open bridle on July 06, 2024, 08:43:56 AM
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Going into the Next Generation races tonight at Scioto Virgil Morgan said this about his 2 yo pacer. “I have my own theories on Lasix,” said the trainer. “I think all horses have pulmonary hemorrhaging at one time or another and I personally think Lasix is a great thing. It is therapeutic and needed in our business.” I know he gives it to his 2 yo's and up whether they need it or not. I am personally on the fence concerning this subject as an owner and would like any opinions from the horseman on this forum.
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I'm not sure I agree with Virgil he's a great trainer has been around and relevant for long time but I'm just wondering does he use the lasix to help cover things up I know you can use more soda with lasix Among other things tony Morgan use to pull blood out of the vein and squirt it up their nose then have the groom go have them scoped
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How many times have you had people tell you that they felt sick, thought there was something seriously wrong with them, went to the ER and were told that they were dehydrated and given IVs?
We give our horse up to 10ccs of lasix four hours before they race, withdraw their water, dehydrate them and then expect them to give us maximum performance. Something about that just doesn't make sense to me but what do I know?
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These same horses that we give lasix to were given $100 dollar jugs 24 hours ago and we suck the jug right out of them with lasix. go figure.
Obviously there are horses that bleed and need lasix but what if they don't bleed?
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The over looked question here is , what vet is giving Virgil a Lasix slip for a horse that’s not bleeding . The industry thinks we don’t need HISA.
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Silly me. I thought you can’t give lasix to a 2 year old on race day.
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The over looked question here is , what vet is giving Virgil a Lasix slip for a horse that’s not bleeding . The industry thinks we don’t need HISA.
The one in his hip pocket.
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How many times have you had people tell you that they felt sick, thought there was something seriously wrong with them, went to the ER and were told that they were dehydrated and given IVs?
We give our horse up to 10ccs of lasix four hours before they race, withdraw their water, dehydrate them and then expect them to give us maximum performance. Something about that just doesn't make sense to me but what do I know?
I agree with this. A lot of trainers want them on lasix no matter what. It's not exactly easy on them. There definitely are horses that legitimately need it, but I doubt seriously all that are on it actually need it.
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The main reason Lasix is used is to eliminate evidence. For example..Take 2 horses..1 on Lasix and 1 not. Give both a 10cc shot of Bute 24 hours before race. After 12 hours, the Bute leaves the blood and collects in the bladder for elimination. The horse given Lasix eliminates the Bute by urinating unnaturally gallons and gallons of liquid while the non lasix horse doesn't. After race when urine is tested on both these horses, the odds of Bute in the sample of Lasix horse is minute while the non lasix sample is questionable. That is why all trainers get their horse on the Lasix list. They can now give drugs closer than the non Lasix horse leading up to a race. Does it make a difference? Apparently many believe it does.
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The main reason Lasix is used is to eliminate evidence. For example..Take 2 horses..1 on Lasix and 1 not. Give both a 10cc shot of Bute 24 hours before race. After 12 hours, the Bute leaves the blood and collects in the bladder for elimination. The horse given Lasix eliminates the Bute by urinating unnaturally gallons and gallons of liquid while the non lasix horse doesn't. After race when urine is tested on both these horses, the odds of Bute in the sample of Lasix horse is minute while the non lasix sample is questionable. That is why all trainers get their horse on the Lasix list. They can now give drugs closer than the non Lasix horse leading up to a race. Does it make a difference? Apparently many believe it does.
I guess the question is - if it clears the system through urine, is it effective as a therapeutic/performance enhancer?
I am legitimately asking; I don't know the processes of drugs in a horse's system.
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The main reason Lasix is used is to eliminate evidence. For example..Take 2 horses..1 on Lasix and 1 not. Give both a 10cc shot of Bute 24 hours before race. After 12 hours, the Bute leaves the blood and collects in the bladder for elimination. The horse given Lasix eliminates the Bute by urinating unnaturally gallons and gallons of liquid while the non lasix horse doesn't. After race when urine is tested on both these horses, the odds of Bute in the sample of Lasix horse is minute while the non lasix sample is questionable. That is why all trainers get their horse on the Lasix list. They can now give drugs closer than the non Lasix horse leading up to a race. Does it make a difference? Apparently many believe it does.
Have you taken into consideration that a good amount of horses don’t end up pissing in the spit box ?
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Have you taken into consideration that a good amount of horses don’t end up pissing in the spit box ?
Not to be a jerk,
but what do you call a "good amount"?
5% to 10%?
10% to 20%?
More or less?
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How many times have you had people tell you that they felt sick, thought there was something seriously wrong with them, went to the ER and were told that they were dehydrated and given IVs?
We give our horse up to 10ccs of lasix four hours before they race, withdraw their water, dehydrate them and then expect them to give us maximum performance. Something about that just doesn't make sense to me but what do I know?
Who said you have to withdraw water just because you give Lasix? That is the absolute worst thing you can do. Water doesn't effect Lasix and only increases the dehydration by restricting it. This is one of the biggest fallacies with Lasix.
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Lasix will cover many drugs. No, I don't have the list, but it will cover Bute! I know that for a fact 100% well, 100% for me!
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Not to be a jerk,
but what do you call a "good amount"?
5% to 10%?
10% to 20%?
More or less?
I could only speak from what I’ve experienced, but I’ve had a lot of horses never piss in the spit box and sometimes the paddock. Lasix or not. The people working the spit box typically want you right into the stall as soon as you are done bathing and sometimes don’t give too much time to cool the horse off. Everyone seems to have their own method of cooling out whether be walking or nothing. Horse doesn’t piss in certain time they just pull blood. They have other races to work and can’t become backed up.
Aside that, some horses piss right away, lasix or not.
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I could only speak from what I’ve experienced, but I’ve had a lot of horses never piss in the spit box and sometimes the paddock. Lasix or not. The people working the spit box typically want you right into the stall as soon as you are done bathing and sometimes don’t give too much time to cool the horse off. Everyone seems to have their own method of cooling out whether be walking or nothing. Horse doesn’t piss in certain time they just pull blood. They have other races to work and can’t become backed up.
Aside that, some horses piss right away, lasix or not.
I will take your word for it only because you use the term "spit box".
I too go back to when they did collect spit thus "spit box".
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If it were my call...the answer is no.
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I guess the question is - if it clears the system through urine, is it effective as a therapeutic/performance enhancer?
I am legitimately asking; I don't know the processes of drugs in a horse's system.
Years ago, the only test was saliva. That is why they called it a spit box. Eventually technology advanced and blood testing commenced. Cornell University eventually came up with equine urine tests which is how most drugs today are detected. I don't think Lasix has any value on its own. If your horse is a true bleeder, there are better things out there to use and quite frankly they aren't as detrimental to a horse's health as Lasix. I may be in the minority but I believe it compromises bone density after prolonged usage regardless of replenishing minerals/electrolytes after administration.
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Have you taken into consideration that a good amount of horses don’t end up pissing in the spit box ?
Lucky them. If you know for sure that your horse will not piss, you can get away with so many pre race options that will no longer be detectable in the blood.
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The main reason Lasix is used is to eliminate evidence. For example..Take 2 horses..1 on Lasix and 1 not. Give both a 10cc shot of Bute 24 hours before race. After 12 hours, the Bute leaves the blood and collects in the bladder for elimination. The horse given Lasix eliminates the Bute by urinating unnaturally gallons and gallons of liquid while the non lasix horse doesn't. After race when urine is tested on both these horses, the odds of Bute in the sample of Lasix horse is minute while the non lasix sample is questionable. That is why all trainers get their horse on the Lasix list. They can now give drugs closer than the non Lasix horse leading up to a race. Does it make a difference? Apparently many believe it does.
so basically the same shit I said just in your own words to make you feel important and not having to agree with me dummy
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so basically the same shit I said just in your own words to make you feel important and not having to agree with me dummy
No dummy, you said Lasix covers up other drugs. It may but I don't know if it does. I said Lasix eliminates the remains of other drugs because of the speeding up the urination process.
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No dummy, you said Lasix covers up other drugs. It may but I don't know if it does. I said Lasix eliminates the remains of other drugs because of the speeding up the urination process.
so bute ain't a drug wow thank you for teaching me something today
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so cute ain't a drug wow thank you for teaching me something today
I try to dumb myself down to your level and understand what you post but I refuse to eat paint chips.
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I try to dumb myself down to your level and understand what you post but I refuse to eat paint chips.
well you better eat them chips it's the only thing you can probably afford do I need to speak s. L. O. W. E. R f. O. R. Y. O. U what part of what I said is to hard for your pea brain to figure out
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well you better eat them chips it's the only thing you can probably afford do I need to speak s. L. O. W. E. R f. O. R. Y. O. U what part of what I said is to hard for your pea brain to figure out
Sorry Dickbreath, your intellect is that of a slug. I don't understand jibberish. Not only is your grammar a complete disaster but you don't have an ounce of knowledge about horses. Come back in about 10 years when you learn something.
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No dummy, you said Lasix covers up other drugs. It may but I don't know if it does. I said Lasix eliminates the remains of other drugs because of the speeding up the urination process.
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Lasix doesn’t cover up anything,
First it targets the Loop of Henie, on drugs that have a permissible level , Bute , Banimine so one it can temporarily lower the level in the urine concentration to under the level, but on drugs that have no permissible level , narcotics, smooth muscle relaxers so on,it will lower the concentration but
but they are still detectable. That’s why you see this positive for pictograms and the trainers blaming everything from personal voiding in stall to lab contamination. If you do some research, like I have done was my former field , these positive with all the nefarious drugs, exp gabapentin in Ohio all the horse were on wait for it Lasix.
The reverse effect of Lasix and it’s the only one is Sodium Bicarbonate, when the backstretch chemist like L. Zembinsky get these sky high readings on a high Bicarbonate it’s from the Lasix because Lasix lowers the circulating water but the bicarbonate level is not affected because the molecular weight. So there defense is I would have had to give 2 lbs to get a reading that high. No just 8oz pull the water 2-4 hrs before horse gets Lasix and you have the potential to get a sky high reading. Again that’s why HISA is so need. Our current system across the country is broken.
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No dummy, you said Lasix covers up other drugs. It may but I don't know if it does. I said Lasix eliminates the remains of other drugs because of the speeding up the urination process.
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Lasix doesn’t cover up anything,
First it targets the Loop of Henie, on drugs that have a permissible level , Bute , Banimine so one it can temporarily lower the level in the urine concentration to under the level, but on drugs that have no permissible level , narcotics, smooth muscle relaxers so on,it will lower the concentration but
but they are still detectable. That’s why you see this positive for pictograms and the trainers blaming everything from personal voiding in stall to lab contamination. If you do some research, like I have done was my former field , these positive with all the nefarious drugs, exp gabapentin in Ohio all the horse were on wait for it Lasix.
The reverse effect of Lasix and it’s the only one is Sodium Bicarbonate, when the backstretch chemist like L. Zembinsky get these sky high readings on a high Bicarbonate it’s from the Lasix because Lasix lowers the circulating water but the bicarbonate level is not affected because the molecular weight. So there defense is I would have had to give 2 lbs to get a reading that high. No just 8oz pull the water 2-4 hrs before horse gets Lasix and you have the potential to get a sky high reading. Again that’s why HISA is so need. Our current system across the country is broken.
The reading comprehension here is amazingly poor. Firstly, I never said Lasix covers up any drug. I posted that a Lasix infused horse eliminates the remains of some drugs quicker than a horse not on Lasix. Secondly, I never posted that Lasix eliminates the remains of ALL drugs.
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What a dumb fucking idea especially in the summer!
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Hey dick Campbell how is my knowledge of horses bad lasix helps hide drugs better you can give more soda amongst other things those are facts dummy ten year old grandson knows that so go back to choking on them dicks
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Hey dick Campbell how is my knowledge of horses bad lasix helps hide drugs better you can give more soda amongst other things those are facts dummy ten year old grandson knows that so go back to choking on them dicks
Wrong again retard. Lasix doesn't hide the baking soda. Testing protocols are different for Lasix and Non Lasix horses. The reason for this is that Lasix raises PH. Commissions allow for this rise by allowing Lasix horses to test higher TCO2 levels than non Lasix horses. In theory, you can give a Lasix horse 1-2 ounces more of Baking Soda than a non Lasix horse but many have been caught when pushing the envelope. The next time you are right about something will be the first time. PS.. We traced your IP address. You actually are a felon. I will be posting the court papers from your 2 convictions Monday or Tuesday since it seems you don't care. Good Luck Shit For Brains
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The main reason Lasix is used is to eliminate evidence. For example..Take 2 horses..1 on Lasix and 1 not. Give both a 10cc shot of Bute 24 hours before race. After 12 hours, the Bute leaves the blood and collects in the bladder for elimination. The horse given Lasix eliminates the Bute by urinating unnaturally gallons and gallons of liquid while the non lasix horse doesn't. After race when urine is tested on both these horses, the odds of Bute in the sample of Lasix horse is minute while the non lasix sample is questionable. That is why all trainers get their horse on the Lasix list. They can now give drugs closer than the non Lasix horse leading up to a race. Does it make a difference? Apparently many believe it does.
Excellent
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Excellent
That is not correct Lasix doesn’t affect Pharmacokinetics. Lasix has no effect on drug half life’s.
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The main reason Lasix is used is to eliminate evidence. For example..Take 2 horses..1 on Lasix and 1 not. Give both a 10cc shot of Bute 24 hours before race. After 12 hours, the Bute leaves the blood and collects in the bladder for elimination. The horse given Lasix eliminates the Bute by urinating unnaturally gallons and gallons of liquid while the non lasix horse doesn't. After race when urine is tested on both these horses, the odds of Bute in the sample of Lasix horse is minute while the non lasix sample is questionable. That is why all trainers get their horse on the Lasix list. They can now give drugs closer than the non Lasix horse leading up to a race. Does it make a difference? Apparently many believe it does.
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Wrong again retard. Lasix doesn't hide the baking soda. Testing protocols are different for Lasix and Non Lasix horses. The reason for this is that Lasix raises PH. Commissions allow for this rise by allowing Lasix horses to test higher TCO2 levels than non Lasix horses. In theory, you can give a Lasix horse 1-2 ounces more of Baking Soda than a non Lasix horse but many have been caught when pushing the envelope. The next time you are right about something will be the first time. PS.. We traced your IP address. You actually are a felon. I will be posting the court papers from your 2 convictions Monday or Tuesday since it seems you don't care. Good Luck Shit For Brains
. We are both saying the same thing but wording it different I'm saying hides your saying you can use more which is what my point about using soda was and as far as other drugs go I know a few other things you can use closer to the race while on lasix than without only two I think your missing one
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Just because lasix is also a diuretic doesn’t mean you can eliminate the drug that was given. There are millions of people on lasix for high blood pressure I can guarantee none of them would pass a pre employment drug screening just because they piss a lot
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Just because lasix is also a diuretic doesn’t mean you can eliminate the drug that was given. There are millions of people on lasix for high blood pressure I can guarantee none of them would pass a pre employment drug screening just because they piss a lot
When racehorses are tested, certain drugs are allowable in levels. Bute, which I used as an example being one of them. There will be less Bute in the urine sample of a Lasix horse than the urine sample of a non Lasix horse 24 hours after administration. It is not my opinion. It is fact. Right now, most states allow Bute 36 hours out. You will have an advantage if your horse is on Lasix as I know people who are getting through the box with Bute 24 hours out with Lasix.
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When racehorses are tested, certain drugs are allowable in levels. Bute, which I used as an example being one of them. There will be less Bute in the urine sample of a Lasix horse than the urine sample of a non Lasix horse 24 hours after administration. It is not my opinion. It is fact. Right now, most states allow Bute 36 hours out. You will have an advantage if your horse is on Lasix as I know people who are getting through the box with Bute 24 hours out with Lasix.
. Are you really that big of a nigger that you want to argue over saying the same fucking shit but in different words you truly are a retarded mother fucker ain't you
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. Are you really that big of a nigger that you want to argue over saying the same fucking shit but in different words you truly are a retarded mother fucker ain't you
I read and write in English. I don't think anyone knows what language you speak. Wait until I post your court documents. We will see how brave you are then.
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I read and write in English. I don't think anyone knows what language you speak. Wait until I post your court documents. We will see how brave you are then.
. Well you got to do what you have to do to feel good about yourself just remember they're consequences for every action you an equal reaction so for a person in their mid 70s I hope your perfect
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. Well you got to do what you have to do to feel good about yourself just remember they're consequences for every action you an equal reaction so for a person in their mid 70s I hope your perfect
Coming from someone who uses the N word constantly, I'll be fine dip shit.