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General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: Harness racer on July 26, 2024, 01:56:54 AM

Title: Hambo/Hambo Oak elims...
Post by: Harness racer on July 26, 2024, 01:56:54 AM
I know they are only elims and I don't plan on wagering on them; but what your thoughts on the divisions.  I think SIG SAUER is getting no respect!  He is not the 5th best horse in that field.  I think TCI is getting too much respect.  He could easily be 3rd or worse in that group.
Title: Re: Hambo/Hambo Oak elims...
Post by: SeattleSlew on July 26, 2024, 04:22:05 AM
The one I will be watching like a hawk is Secret Agent Man.  He seems to be moving in a good direction and the Millers have been to this dance and had some success (although no wins yet!).  Clearly the "big 3" have questions to answer and then, as you noted Sig Sauer, Dame Good Time and the Ake contingent are also ones to observe.
Title: Re: Hambo/Hambo Oak elims...
Post by: Jctoronto on July 26, 2024, 08:02:13 AM
Strictly gambling side, highlight of big Elim nights in NJ, Indy or Toronto =
One good 'beat the bridgejumper' chance per night

You can't go wrong giving it a show or place pool shot
on two or three horses .vs the 'monster'. At worst lose a little bit.
Title: Re: Hambo/Hambo Oak elims...
Post by: The Doctor on July 28, 2024, 09:08:26 PM
Strictly gambling side, highlight of big Elim nights in NJ, Indy or Toronto =
One good 'beat the bridgejumper' chance per night

You can't go wrong giving it a show or place pool shot
on two or three horses .vs the 'monster'. At worst lose a little bit.

Don't bet one or two, bet rest of field.
Title: Re: Hambo/Hambo Oak elims...
Post by: Papillon on July 29, 2024, 10:56:41 AM
Sig Sauer is certainly one to watch

didnt try in his elim

Daley will have him at his best on Saturday

not sure if that will be good enough-but the horse will be primed
Title: Re: Hambo/Hambo Oak elims...
Post by: PineHurstPacer on July 30, 2024, 02:25:48 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxXC5Ks4nmY
Title: Re: Hambo/Hambo Oak elims...
Post by: Harness Stats on July 30, 2024, 03:20:04 PM
Elista and Karl both drew the rail.  Trotters from the rail have a hard enough time. They need to change the rules to draws for 2 to 6
Title: Re: Hambo/Hambo Oak elims...
Post by: Ramone on July 30, 2024, 04:16:28 PM
Elista and Karl both drew the rail.  Trotters from the rail have a hard enough time. They need to change the rules to draws for 2 to 6

To quote Ray Schnittker "I'll take the rail anytime" when talking about Dewey. Unfortunately people repeat things enough that they become accepted truths when they are not.
Here are Woodbine Mohawk Park trot stats.

Trot
              1    2    3    4    5    6    7    8    9   10   11
              -    -    -    -    -    -    -    -    -   --   --
Starts      434  434  434  434  434  431  403  338  231  133    0
Wins         54   41   42   46   82   75   49   31   13    1    0
Win%       12.4  9.4  9.7 10.6 18.9 17.4 12.2  9.2  5.6  0.8  0.0

The Meadowlands post stats are not broken out by gait unfortunately but posts 1 through 4 are almost equal.
10.9  10.0  11.8  11.4
Title: Re: Hambo/Hambo Oak elims...
Post by: Equus Caballus on July 30, 2024, 04:36:53 PM
Elista and Karl both drew the rail.  Trotters from the rail have a hard enough time. They need to change the rules to draws for 2 to 6

I’ve been saying this for many years now. Ready for moni won his elim, Drew the rail, and was 1st over in the final. Arguably, he was a winner in the final from a better post.

I’ve proposed the “stealing post” method. Where the race would be drawn as normal, and the elim winners pick a post to “steal” from another entrant and swap with them if they so choose. Fastest elim winner or random elim winner chooses last as it would be last movers advantage.
Title: Re: Hambo/Hambo Oak elims...
Post by: Harness Stats on July 30, 2024, 04:52:05 PM
The Goodtimes in Canada does do the 2 - 6 draw.  I'd like to see that happen in other races too. 

By the way AI sucks about questions like this.  I had to correct Bing four times when they gave me bad information about this question.
Title: Re: Hambo/Hambo Oak elims...
Post by: MIKE CAMPBELL on July 30, 2024, 04:54:02 PM
Post positions should be picked by owner/trainer. Fastest elim winner picks first..Fastest 2nd place elim picks third..Fastest 3rd place elim picks 5th and so on. It might actually make the eliminations more competitive too.
Title: Re: Hambo/Hambo Oak elims...
Post by: Frankie T on July 30, 2024, 04:57:02 PM
Post positions should be picked by owner/trainer. Fastest elim winner picks first..Fastest 2nd place elim picks third..Fastest 3rd place elim picks 5th and so on. It might actually make the eliminations more competitive too.

How about the elimination winners pick, then the second place finishers pick, then the third place finishers pick and so on?
Title: Re: Hambo/Hambo Oak elims...
Post by: Papillon on July 31, 2024, 11:00:29 AM
the two elim winners should get posts 5 and 6

the others should be an open draw
Title: Re: Hambo/Hambo Oak elims...
Post by: Grandstand Handicapper on July 31, 2024, 12:12:11 PM
Drawing the rail somewhat forces your hand to some extent. At least that's what many top drivers have said. Could it be an advantage? I guess if you are run and gun, want the top, and plan on going from gate to wire.

I think Ray's comment was probably based upon him wanting to be on top (and perhaps his driving style in general).
Title: Re: Hambo/Hambo Oak elims...
Post by: Harness Stats on July 31, 2024, 12:18:25 PM
One of the problems with the rail is that some trotters just can't handle it.  Look at R Melina for example.  She drew it twice recently and look what happened.  xxx both times.  No problem when she drew outside the next few starts and now she is in the final.  Lucky for her she didn't draw the rail, they must have been praying at the draw and screaming for joy when Elista drew it.
Title: Re: Hambo/Hambo Oak elims...
Post by: Grandstand Handicapper on July 31, 2024, 01:49:38 PM
One of the problems with the rail is that some trotters just can't handle it.  Look at R Melina for example.  She drew it twice recently and look what happened.  xxx both times.  No problem when she drew outside the next few starts and now she is in the final.  Lucky for her she didn't draw the rail, they must have been praying at the draw and screaming for joy when Elista drew it.

Very true. A horse is a horse of course of course, LOL. Some horses just don't like the rail.
Title: Re: Hambo/Hambo Oak elims...
Post by: helpplease on July 31, 2024, 02:48:38 PM
To quote Ray Schnittker "I'll take the rail anytime" when talking about Dewey. Unfortunately people repeat things enough that they become accepted truths when they are not.
Here are Woodbine Mohawk Park trot stats.

Trot
              1    2    3    4    5    6    7    8    9   10   11
              -    -    -    -    -    -    -    -    -   --   --
Starts      434  434  434  434  434  431  403  338  231  133    0
Wins         54   41   42   46   82   75   49   31   13    1    0
Win%       12.4  9.4  9.7 10.6 18.9 17.4 12.2  9.2  5.6  0.8  0.0

The Meadowlands post stats are not broken out by gait unfortunately but posts 1 through 4 are almost equal.
10.9  10.0  11.8  11.4

My opinion is these stats are useful in everyday year round overnight racing but when the race is stacked full of the best in the North America there is a reason the best drivers/trainers in North America very seldom choose the rail when they have the oportunity to do so.
Title: Re: Hambo/Hambo Oak elims...
Post by: MIKE CAMPBELL on July 31, 2024, 02:51:53 PM
How about the elimination winners pick, then the second place finishers pick, then the third place finishers pick and so on?
I thought that is what I posted. Sorry if I confused you.
Title: Re: Hambo/Hambo Oak elims...
Post by: Harness racer on July 31, 2024, 03:32:57 PM
ELISTA HANOVER has it in the Oaks.  No issues leaving, but will have to hustle off the gate to save ground and then decide who to release and when to retake.  Winners should get their choice of starting spots.
Title: Re: Hambo/Hambo Oak elims...
Post by: Frankie T on July 31, 2024, 05:20:08 PM
I thought that is what I posted. Sorry if I confused you.

No you send the "fastest" of each finish position. I did not say that because the final time is a product of how the race plays out. I will leave it at that. I do not need to make a rude reply.
Title: Re: Hambo/Hambo Oak elims...
Post by: MIKE CAMPBELL on July 31, 2024, 07:11:22 PM
No you send the "fastest" of each finish position. I did not say that because the final time is a product of how the race plays out. I will leave it at that. I do not need to make a rude reply.
How do you determine the order of picking between the 2 winners, the 2 place horses etc?
Title: Re: Hambo/Hambo Oak elims...
Post by: Harness racer on July 31, 2024, 07:17:56 PM
Coin flip or drawing
Title: Re: Hambo/Hambo Oak elims...
Post by: Parked on July 31, 2024, 10:01:55 PM
Eliminations should be non betting and then have an open draw. 
Title: Re: Hambo/Hambo Oak elims...
Post by: rainman2 on August 01, 2024, 01:44:19 AM
Post positions should be picked by owner/trainer. Fastest elim winner picks first..Fastest 2nd place elim picks third..Fastest 3rd place elim picks 5th and so on. It might actually make the eliminations more competitive too.

do a draw by lot of the winner(s), 2nd place finishers, 3rd place finishers, etc. you can let them pick their own post positions in this sequence.  you can do this whether there are 2 or more eliminations also.

or you do it the little brown jug does it.  winners draw for 1/2.  2nd place draws for 3/4, etc.  you can do it this way for multiple eliminations too.

Either way, it ends all the arguments.  you also know that the winner(s) can't gwt a bad draw if they have an open draw too!

Title: Re: Hambo/Hambo Oak elims...
Post by: jupiter on August 01, 2024, 09:26:55 AM
That's a half mile track. Makes a big difference. People have already gone into why you don't want the rail on a big track. Just make them all open draws, it worked for years, even the playing field. And NO more supplements or make them race for NO purse money, only their supplement money back if they win. See if anyone would race to get a stake win and record but no money. Either you are staked to a race or not.
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