HORSEPLOP.COM
General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: Locked in with pace on July 28, 2024, 04:57:36 AM
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THIS SITAUTION IS A MESS. LEGAL ISSUES EXPLAINED??
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Absolutely. What say you, Counselor?
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Not A Lawyer but I think they're F--ked. The old buyer beware. jmo
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There's no warranty or guarantee accompanied with a bill of sale or receipt when buying racehorses or any high risk investments, the buyers due diligence of vetting, bloodwork, research and risk assessment is all we got when buying privately..
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There's no warranty or guarantee accompanied with a bill of sale or receipt when buying racehorses or any high risk investments, the buyers due diligence of vetting, bloodwork, research and risk assessment is all we got when buying privately..
It is going to depend on who knew what when. If the testing was done before the sale and the original owners knew they had given the horse a PED, there is clear fraud.
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I would be perusing a fraud case. The EPO or what ever drug was given to have the buyer believe the horse was something he is not. The horse was purchased as a racehorse. He is now unable to race the horse because of the fraud was found out 5 days prior to the race but not disclosed to the buyer.
There are other frauds committed here , I would believe.
The Racing commission knew of the positive drug test but did not inform the buyer. Don't they have a duty to protect all?
There are cards to be played.
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Racing Commissions are only obligated to inform a new ownership under the rules of a claim. Private or Public auctions are not the jurisdiction of the racing commissions in terms of providing buyer's information. A buyer spending any denomination, has the right an obligation only to themselves to test, vest, and determine if they want to take on someone else's project, headache, or reject.
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If liability is co-shared this is borne by the seller, its agent, and sales company or online site providing the horse for public sale. The problem is we allow sales companies to dictate ancient sales language and terms that does not apply or is accepted practice in any other legitimate industry.
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The fact that the horse was given an illegal substance would void the sale.
Easily said but if it goes to the courts it would be a long process and then what do you do with the horse ?
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This is true. So its safe to safe that if the sale isnt voided. The cost of a useless purchase has become double in value. Very stupid on the seller's side.
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Sometimes the adage that possession is 9/10th of the law works against you.
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Pollock has plenty of dough. Harris probably knew the reputation of the trainer. Pollock is quite naive to spend a huge amount on any horse from any trainer and not suspect foul play. He should have done a more extensive blood test before the purchase to rule out ANY illegal substances in the horse instead of rushing to have a PACE contender 3 weeks later. Stupidty is not a defense in court.
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The window to detect DPO is 24 hours. So a blood test would of been a waste of $$$.
In law everything starts with " Would a reasonable man..."
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If the AGCO allowed the horse to race after being given notice from the lab of a positive sample, this clearly contravenes their "..for the welfare of the horse" mandate.
The AGCO regulates the conduct of horse racing at Ontario’s licensed racetracks through the Rules of Racing for Thoroughbred, Standardbred, and Quarter Horse breeds, exercising authority for the overall governance of horse racing in Ontario. The AGCO also licenses and regulates individuals and businesses involved in the horse racing industry, including processing applications from racing participants and for racetracks and teletheatre locations and conducting due diligence reviews and investigations of applicants. Lastly, the agency promotes safety and consistency for horse racing participants and equine athletes.
The AGCO ensures compliance with the Rules of Racing by having Race Officials present to officiate races and investigating alleged rule infractions. The AGCO supports the health and welfare of horses and horse racing participants by conducting out-of-competition drug testing and inspections to ensure appropriate use of therapeutic drugs. The AGCO also collaborates with the Canadian Pari-Mutuel Agency (CPMA) who oversees the post-race equine drug testing program to prevent the misuse of equine drugs. The AGCO conducts inspections and/or investigations of positive tests, and subsequently holds reviews in order to determine penalties as per the Rules of Racing.
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My spouse is an attorney. Lawsuit for fraud, misrepresentation, interference with business, breach of warranty, and breach of contract. In the meantime, I hope Funtime is ok and being taken care of properly.
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Some of you guys seem to think that blood is taken, tested, and results given the same day.
This isn't the case. It takes time. When a positive is obtained, the split sample is usually sent to another lab to confirm the first test.
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is Funtime Bahama entered anywhere?
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is Funtime Bahama entered anywhere?
Not in the US or Canada. And it's Bayama as in Bayama Farms and if you are to understand this situation you have to start with the downfall of Bayama Farms and Yves Filion when the Quebec breeding business tanked.
Motive is always a good place to start.
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I hear they are negotiating a return of some of the purchase price. Allegedly, the buyer wants to keep the horse.
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The window to detect DPO is 24 hours. So a blood test would of been a waste of $$$.
In law everything starts with " Would a reasonable man..."
Finally, someone who understands testing. 24 -36 hours for erythropoientin. That is why detention barns in most cases are worthless and that is why out of comp testing is the only way to catch it, as was the case here.
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Yves was given a million $ by the Quebec government when the industry closed down. A million $ was a lot of money back then. So don't cry for Yves.
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I hear they are negotiating a return of some of the purchase price. Allegedly, the buyer wants to keep the horse.
What an idiot after the way he raced on meadowlands pace final i would gladly hand him back
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Andrew must've said when can fix him...or get him the same supplements! ngc3
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Andrew must've said when can fix him...or get him the same supplements! ngc3
Or a 'different' version of "undetectable" supplements!
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Are we sure Funtime didn't breakdown in the M1Pace final.. he was lame after those bad steps at 3/4pole.. coulda cracked something and that could be the reason why nobody on their end is saying too much, pretty silent.
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Since EPO is not an approved drug to be used for racing in any state or province, it would not be expected for a buyer to test for it. There is no question there was fraud involved in this sale. The sale could be rescinded or the purchaser awarded damages.
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Are we sure Funtime didn't breakdown in the M1Pace final.. he was lame after those bad steps at 3/4pole.. coulda cracked something and that could be the reason why nobody on their end is saying too much, pretty silent.
No, no one knows the answer to that question
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Since EPO is not an approved drug to be used for racing in any state or province, it would not be expected for a buyer to test for it. There is no question there was fraud involved in this sale. The sale could be rescinded or the purchaser awarded damages.
Apparently you are not a horseman. At this point in time, to not think a horse has been racing on EPO or any unapproved drug for that matter would make the buyer the most ignorant tool ever. It is an epidemic out there. The days of horses racing on hay and oats is OVER. No need to respond, as you proved how ignorant you are.
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No, no one knows the answer to that question
the person possessing the horse might have that information now. maybe we all find out down the road 'the real story!
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The horse will probably show up in a MP photo
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Apparently you are not a horseman. At this point in time, to not think a horse has been racing on EPO or any unapproved drug for that matter would make the buyer the most ignorant tool ever. It is an epidemic out there. The days of horses racing on hay and oats is OVER. No need to respond, as you proved how ignorant you are.
In the eyes of the law...
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WE NEED THE COUNSELOR'S LEGAL THOUGHTS!!!
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In the eyes of the law...
You're a fucking idiot.
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You're a fucking idiot.
Your post says it all about you.
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Apparently you are not a horseman. At this point in time, to not think a horse has been racing on EPO or any unapproved drug for that matter would make the buyer the most ignorant tool ever. It is an epidemic out there. The days of horses racing on hay and oats is OVER. No need to respond, as you proved how ignorant you are.
Unfortunately Mike is 100% correct.
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100% truth
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Unfortunately Mike is 100% correct.
Then why aren't all of you making anonymous reports so everyone can be caught?
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Then why aren't all of you making anonymous reports so everyone can be caught?
How do you know we aren't Einstein? The authorities don't give a fuck about harness racing.
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How do you know we aren't Einstein? The authorities don't give a fuck about harness racing.
If you did something would happen. You are just talk. You can insult people on an a message board but you are afraid to do anything meaningful.
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If you did something would happen. You are just talk. You can insult people on an a message board but you are afraid to do anything meaningful.
Believe what you want jerkoff but many have ratted on people including myself and nothing was done. You're just a piece of shit wannabee with no skin in the game who comes on here and does nothing but criticizes.
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https://harnessracingupdate.com/2024/08/04/andrew-harris-optimistic-despite-funtime-bayama-drama/
Not that it says anything, but obviously they've gotten legal counsel. But it does mean they got legal counsel. Whatever the grounds or charges are, there has to be something, some action, grounds, whatever. People can say the owner is in it for this, doesn't care about that, tax deduction here, legacy there, and so on and so on. No way does anyone write a check for high six digits, finds out the seller did something illegal which certainly was a factor in the sales process, and walks away. No friggin' way.
While it has been said that the (positive) test (results) were not known and not available at the time of the sale.....I for one can't help but wonder.....when did Moreau and Yves find out? Might be irrelevant. Obviously at the time of sale they knew the horse had been tested and that test results were pending. No obligation to tell the seller that. I am not a trainer, but what I saw that night worried me. That horse was in contention, right there, pulled to take his shot.....and crashed and burned. He stopped. Couldn't pace. In the length of the stretch that horse went from a length or two from the lead.....to beaten over 30 lengths. He could barely finish. If this would have happened past the half he would have been pulled up, and if he wasn't, he would have been beaten over a 1/4 mile. Crashed and burned. Too bad. I hope this is a catalyst for change. At least Moreau should be gone a long time.
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Judges informed Moreau July 22.
The Fillion family knew they loaded up the horse before selling, but July 22 was also the day they found out they were busted.
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They were quietly notified before July 22,, Moreau/WEG/AGCO were made aware of a pending OCT positive, but had to wait for the split sample retest to confirm the outcome.!! They purposely waited to announce it publicly.
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can the horse be entered to race in the states
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They were quietly notified before July 22,, Moreau/WEG/AGCO were made aware of a pending OCT positive, but had to wait for the split sample retest to confirm the outcome.!! They purposely waited to announce it publicly.
Wrong.
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Wrong.
What is the correction then ?
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This rancid transaction might go down as the biggest scam of all horse sales in harness racing history! What is the horse doing now? Is it healthy?