HORSEPLOP.COM
General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: Locked in with pace on January 15, 2025, 04:53:56 AM
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Never saw so many horses that leave the gate go off at such low odds
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This has being going on for 2 years now but its extreme lately as they are getting bolder and more greedy and to me its either elite turf club who has been given access to parimutual pools or PGI PREMIER GATEWAY INTERNATIONAL WHO HAVE BEEN around a short while and all the tracks they host like DUBAI and south korea and urawa and other small japan tracks its massive underlay city and pgi is based out of the isle off man and very rarely return an email if questioned,,,,,,,,,In years past many suspect tickets came in ffrom oregon and at that time it was the hub for computer groups,,,,,,
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Even if what everything you say is correct and they do have access to the pools, why would you bet so much to have your horse end up going off at 1/5 or 1/9. You would need to have almost the horses win or you'd end up losing.
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Even if what everything you say is correct and they do have access to the pools, why would you bet so much to have your horse end up going off at 1/5 or 1/9. You would need to have almost the horses win or you'd end up losing money.
correct but they get all the vig as they own the caw just the 4 percent to the track and if you read up and it is common knowledge elite turf club was given access a couple years back and it makes no sense like you say but also making no sense is that most computer groups that bet overlays and were given access to the pools like dana parnham are no longer operating as they can not compete with elite turf club and DANA PARNHAM does not run away from making money,,,,,,,,,,, my best guess is pgi is a really huge problem as they operate with insanity such as superfecta starting off with a 900 dollar caryover and 3 carryovers at 3.30 in the morning north AMERICA IS BETTING 92000 INTO A CARRYOVER and when seeing that i went into shock as those numbers are not possible and have never got a reply,,,,,,,,,,,,, When are commisions who are paid to protect us when horses drop 9-2 to 8-5,,,,,,,,,,,,, very few posters on here really care about gambling and i am not here for anything else as the sport is run WWE style today and in my first 10 posts this is all i talked about and when speaking to GABE PRUITT a couple months back he told me that racetracks need elite turf club today who say they do 42 percent of all handle in north america and i am not smart enough to figure out how this is possible,,,,,,,,,,
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I'm one of the few posters on here whose only interest is in the gambling aspect of it. Even though I know there is alot of juicing going on, I have a pretty good idea of who's doing it at the tracks I play which is all I'm really concerned with. Before coming onto this site about 6 months ago I was totally unaware of Elite Turf Club. They obviously must be receiving big time rewards or commissions on their wagers, and if they're able to wager a few seconds after the bell it's obviously a big advantage the little guy doesn't have. Since Gural cries poor all the time, he needs Elite Turf Club to make his targeted 3-million-dollar average handle and will cater to their every need to do so.
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i wonder how it would work if for one weekend or one night no one bet the meadowlands.
some how try and get the word out and have the meadow lands banded for one night. bet other tracks just not the meadowlands. you would never get it to work. but it would be great to see.
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At the thoroughbred tracks where CAW play is super heavy, you don't see the super late money on obvious chalk like you do at the meadowlands. Who knows what's happening but it must be noted that these places like Elite must bet a certain amount per night/week/month as part of the negotiations that allows them into the pools. Maybe one way they hit their requirement is by betting large amounts to win on very obvious favorites.
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Some of the late money comes from some of the OTB's who send in all their money at the end instead of in increments like some others do which could account for part of the big odds fluctuations.
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Do these tracks realize they are pushing out the average fan? Or maybe they just don't care. The fan who has $50 to $100 to bet on the races, sits at home betting on his phone or computer, hoping to make enough money to bet on another day's card. Tough to do this when the horse leaving the gate goes off at such low odds. The sport has enough problems this one is killing off what the sport needs. THE BETTING PUBLIC. That's why sports betting is so more appealing to all ages and sexes.
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It's annoying when I bet $30 on a horse to win at 5/1 as the horses are moving up, the next thing I know he's 7/5.
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This has being going on for 2 years now
It's a lot more than 2 years. I stopped betting after simulcasting and slots ruined the pools back almost 30 years ago. I starting paying attention again in 2013 due to boredom and the first thing I noticed is how the odds would change drastically after the gate opened. Enough so to make win betting odds predictions worthless. That plus the small pools everywhere made me bet an absurdly small amount compared to what I bet in the 80s and early 90s. Taking inflation into consideration makes it even worse.
The combination of small pools and the rebate bettors make the whole game impossible to beat and as I said it's been way more than 2 years.
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Bet Ira Who at Dover was 9/5 when they went behind the car and went off 1/9 30 seconds later.
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When that happens you would love to cancel the bet but can't, and even if the horse wins you make nothing.
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It's a lot more than 2 years. I stopped betting after simulcasting and slots ruined the pools back almost 30 years ago. I starting paying attention again in 2013 due to boredom and the first thing I noticed is how the odds would change drastically after the gate opened. Enough so to make win betting odds predictions worthless. That plus the small pools everywhere made me bet an absurdly small amount compared to what I bet in the 80s and early 90s. Taking inflation into consideration makes it even worse.
The combination of small pools and the rebate bettors make the whole game impossible to beat and as I said it's been way more than 2 years.
correct,,,,,,,,,,,,i have been involved with this for many years as it really affects me but the last 2 years its out of proportion and getting worse,,,,,,,,,, This problem is management as believe me they see it and do not care but now its spread for the first time to hong kong and europe and pari mutual pools everywhere and i assure you with horses dropping at SHI TIN like they are they are barking up the wrong tree..........
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Gamblers won't complain when that horse drops to 1/9 at the last second, shits the bed in the race and their horse at 4/1 wins and pays a nice return because of it.
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Gamblers won't complain when that horse drops to 1/9 at the last second, shits the bed in the race and their horse at 4/1 wins and pays a nice return because of it.
For me its hard to post reading posts like this from horsemen killing this sport,,,,,,,,how do you answer this post unless you are john stewart..........
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agreed
if you can lay off those heavy favs there is some overlay opportunities
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To me one of the biggest issues CAW or otherwise is how prescient they are betting horses getting away in optimal position .ie gate leavers making front easily.
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agreed
if you can lay off those heavy favs there is some overlay opportunities
i can not say never but i rarely not only do not bet chalk and im looking quite often for a big price that can make me money but that post the irked me badly was a horsemens post,,,,,,,,,,imagine a horseman saying i can win because i can not beat the drug cheats and my reply was if you were winning you would not complain,,,,,,,,,,,,,you can not beat a crooked card game and if you think its a plus that they cheat you are not in reality as they bet speed horses and last i checked those horses are doing well.
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To me one of the biggest issues CAW or otherwise is how prescient they are betting horses getting away in optimal position .ie gate leavers making front easily.
It is called betting after the race starts-plain and simple
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i would never bet a 1/9. i look for value. last week kurt sugg had one from the 7 hole. 9 -1 behind the gate. i think he went off 8/5. he won but i was like wtf happened.
and ofcourse he left out of there on the half mile track and got pounded late.
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It is called betting after the race starts-plain and simple
If that really is the case, they are open to class action lawsuits. Racing can be considered a game of chance and everyone should have an equal chance of winning. Skill is involved but when your tilting the playing field by means of data access, live feeds, and wagering capabilities that is illegal.
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It is called betting after the race starts-plain and simple
great poster
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i would never bet a 1/9. i look for value. last week kurt sugg had one from the 7 hole. 9 -1 behind the gate. i think he went off 8/5. he won but i was like wtf happened.
and ofcourse he left out of there on the half mile track and got pounded late.
This has been going on 15-20 years and finally some eyes are being opened
I have said there is betting after the race starts on this site for years-only to be mocked every single time
I was mocked when I said about half the handle is CAW related and yet again I was called a conspiracy theorist
open your eyes-see who blast the gate and who is a laggard--then watch the odds drop/ go up accordingly
wake up people
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pap,,,,,years ago during the breeders cup pik6 scandel when the guy had all all all going off 3 prices in huge fields the president of NYRA said the very next day that he is sure it was a legit ticket and i would not have taken 1000-1 on that but those type of people still run racetracks,,,,,,,,,back then things like that were rare and today guys spend a billion dollars with security and hackers still break in and i can assure you that racetracks spend 14 dollars on security and have sargeant schultz watch and make sure everything is going smooth......
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Ahh yes
The Pick 6 scandal
a couple of Drexel computer engineers who worked at YouBet figured out a way to have access to the Pick 6 after 4 legs were completed
of course they played all-all in the last two legs--ironically the racing gods stepped in and had 44-1 shot Volponi win and expose the fraud. If a bomb would not have won-these kids would have collected and nobody would have known.
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This has been going on 15-20 years and finally some eyes are being opened
I have said there is betting after the race starts on this site for years-only to be mocked every single time
I was mocked when I said about half the handle is CAW related and yet again I was called a conspiracy theorist
open your eyes-see who blast the gate and who is a laggard--then watch the odds drop/ go up accordingly
wake up people
This has been going on at Yonkers for decades. Somebody has a 7-8 second access to wagers after the start of the race.
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"i can not say never but i rarely not only do not bet chalk and im looking quite often for a big price that can make me money but that post the irked me badly was a horsemens post,,,,,,,,,,imagine a horseman saying i can win because i can not beat the drug cheats and my reply was if you were winning you would not complain,,,,,,,,,,,,,you can not beat a crooked card game and if you think its a plus that they cheat you are not in reality as they bet speed horses and last i checked those horses are doing well."
Any1left, that was my post and I am an owner that doesn't cheat and I'm sure I've left money on the table because I don't, but my eyes are wide open and don't complain much. I know the cards are stacked against my horses at times, but I'm not in with the expectation of getting rich. I'm in it because I love being around the barn, trying to buy a good yearling and enjoy the process of that horse training down. The money I invest, I can afford to, so no one is going to starve or be out on the street if it doesn't work out. It's my hobby.
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This has been going on at Yonkers for decades. Somebody has a 7-8 second access to wagers after the start of the race.
When Brandywine Raceway was still open, there used to be between a 5 and 8 second gate call every race before the machines locked. Several of us would stand in front of a mutuel teller, watching the TV and would play win or exacta boxes on horses who were leaving from the outside.
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When Brandywine Raceway was still open, there used to be between a 5 and 8 second gate call every race before the machines locked. Several of us would stand in front of a mutuel teller, watching the TV and would play win or exacta boxes on horses who were leaving from the outside.
tHAT WAS AT MANY TRACKS,,,,,,,I DID SAME
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Even when the machines locked you could still get out a few more tickets.
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maybe 60 minutes and anderson cooper need to do a investigation on this.
close betting a min before the race. its an easy fix if they want to. the problem is they dont want to. they will lose all the caw money and there goes their handle. right down the shitter.
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most of the bets made on 1/5 or 1/9 shots is heavily rebated-so it is worth it for them
hypothetically if they receive 5%--and $2.10 winner now becomes a $2.20 winner and I can assure you they are receiving more than 5%
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Gamblers won't complain when that horse drops to 1/9 at the last second, shits the bed in the race and their horse at 4/1 wins and pays a nice return because of it.
Bingo! It happens all the time. Hell, it isn't hard to figure out what type of horses are going off at 1/5 or 1/9. And when you can find any sort of hole in them, take a swing. It is easy to pass a race if you think the odds will be too cheap and you can't find anything else.
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NO WAY YOU GAMBLE
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Not to get off topic but years ago at Windsor Raceway my father told me of a time they forgot to shutoff betting for the race and it was still open past the 3/4 pole. The teller at the $50 window was punching as many win bets on the leader who had a huge lead (8-9 lengths).
As they came off the turn he ran like a deer and couldn't reset. Teller had a hard time explaining why his cash was short so much haha.
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Someone is making money with these CAWs, but it sure isn't helping the average fan or growing the fan base. As the older generation fans die off, there will be no more fans.
Look at Amazon. Their product offerings grow, and they ship to your door. At first, the mom-and-pop stores fell by the wayside. Now, as Amazon grows and sells even more items, the big chains are even closing stores. And with the emergence of sports betting in more and more states. the future of growing harness racing sure looks dim.
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Bet 365 has proposed a lock in your price wager. It’s supposed to start in Colorado and only 1 or 2 tracks with gallopers. Don’t know if it will ever hit all of the states and include harness tracks.
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Bet 365 has proposed a lock in your price wager. It’s supposed to start in Colorado and only 1 or 2 tracks with gallopers. Don’t know if it will ever hit all of the states and include harness tracks.
could never be a standarbred track with 300-800 in pools at opening and thats the big tracks plus harness racing would never want that as it would make the game look more corrupt than it is,,,,,,,,,,,,
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could never be a standarbred track with 300-800 in pools at opening and thats the big tracks plus harness racing would never want that as it would make the game look more corrupt than it is,,,,,,,,,,,,
Can it get more corrupt ?
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1/2 in race 1
1/5 in race 2
Are crazy low priced winners. It's out of control
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1/2 in race 1
1/5 in race 2
Are crazy low priced winners. It's out of control
OMG OUT Of Control, in the 3rd after the bell the odds dropped on the 4 & 6........ pounding them as they were 5th & 6th away form the gate ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
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OMG OUT Of Control, in the 3rd after the bell the odds dropped on the 4 & 6........ pounding them as they were 5th & 6th away form the gate ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
If you think Queen sun ryser and T dog are deep odds on type horses, in any scenario, you are a total fool
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1/2 in race 1
1/5 in race 2
Are crazy low priced winners. It's out of control
If you think Queen sun ryser and T dog are deep odds on type horses, in any scenario, you are a total fool
You brought those 2 horses to everyone's attention, with Your Foolish post 73cv.2 73cv.2 73cv.2 73cv.2 "It's out of control"
Look we can call each other names ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
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over bet horse that leave the gate and jog suck for the sport
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You brought those 2 horses to everyone's attention, with Your Foolish post 73cv.2 73cv.2 73cv.2 73cv.2 "It's out of control"
Look we can call each other names ngc3 ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
i do not know why you are angry with this gut after you made a very correct and good post and you know you are correct,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, i never read a foolish post from you,,,,,,,,
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Race 8, Friday at the the Meadowlands in a new 2-4 TROT RACE. .Late money comes in on the 4 as he leaves the gate.
$2.40 $2.10 $2.10 As stated earlier -It's out of control
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Would be interesting to see someone break down the numbers at Mohawk with respect to chalk dominance.
Thursday it was apparent, but not overwhelming.
Friday night was a joke. If you bet a horse to win at 2 - 1 or higher, you were throwing your ticket away.
Mohawk needs to at least take a look to see if that is a trend.
If it is, either this whole late betting scenario may be true and or, you're doing a terrible job of creating your conditions. The races aren't competitive.
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those who are allowed to bet after the bell, like Elite get about 1/8th a mile to get their bets in
they need to see ALL the bets made into the pools before they make their pool analysis
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i would like to see the last flash only odds ,like a seperate pool ,
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i have taken photos of the exactors as they go behind the gate and they drop in accordance with the win bet its a complete joe thats not funny............ .
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i have taken photos of the exactors as they go behind the gate and they drop in accordance with the win bet its a complete joe thats not funny............ .
Elite can make all their win, exacta, trifecta bets etc all in 1 batch of bets. They need about 1 second to analyze pools and send in hundreds of bets at the same time. Belinda stonach and NYRA (elite) are great business partners for Gural
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NYRA bars CAW win money on their own product at 1 MTP cause they know how bad it is for perception of their own product but they absolutely hammer meadowlands win bets at the very last call through their own caw (elite).
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NYRA bars CAW win money on their own product at 1 MTP cause they know how bad it is for perception of their own product but they absolutely hammer meadowlands win bets at the very last call through their own caw (elite).
I will give NYRA some props for this, also I think CAWS are banded from NYRA win pools, however they are killing racing payoffs
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those who are allowed to bet after the bell, like Elite get about 1/8th a mile to get their bets in
they need to see ALL the bets made into the pools before they make their pool analysis
Pap,,,,,winners paying 2.80 and you would have to think that can not be a winning formula but if it was not the would not keep going on and people are missing a huge problem and that is the breeders as they want fast times for breeding and this has broken horses down plus makes racing boring and helped the drug cheats as they are usually the leaders and its time to bank the track way more and get rid of passing lanes and go inside one pylon and you are down,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, More front runners win in harness racing than in quarter horse racing,,,,,,,,,,,,,i do not know of a track worse than Western fair and Mohawk and these were great tracks for closers 30 years ago and western fair was a track that produced young superstars and today it is to me the worst track on the planet as management just does not care,,,,,,,,,
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I will give NYRA some props for this, also I think CAWS are banded from NYRA win pools, however they are killing racing payoffs
NYRA cuts off the rebate for Elite at 3 minutes till post--but not the other pools-they are not banded
they are allowed in the WPS at the last flash-but they receive no rebate for this so you wont see big odds change
they can play all horizontals and verticals after all other bets--just not WPS
Oaklawn does not allow any CAW in to the pools--owner Cella saw the pick pocketing and never allowed them in--thats why they have relatively smaller pick 4 and pick 5 pools
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I will give NYRA some props for this, also I think CAWS are banded from NYRA win pools, however they are killing racing payoffs
CAWs still severely aggect their other pools, gamblers still getting the shaft. NYRA attempting to protect their image is all, removing the most obvious pool CAWs affect - win.
Then NYRA turns around and attacks any pool that's available to them with Elite - for harness purposes, NYRA is in part behind what you see nightly at the meadowlands.
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Race 8, Friday at the the Meadowlands in a new 2-4 TROT RACE. .Late money comes in on the 4 as he leaves the gate.
$2.40 $2.10 $2.10 As stated earlier -It's out of control
Out of control again Saturday night @ The Big M race 12, I guess Elite cleaned up again ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
8 LOUISVILLE GB Odds of 1/9, $2.20 $2.10 $2.10 Oh never mind she finished 4th ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
You can Cherry Pick you results and ignore the rest of the weekend 73cv.2 73cv.2 73cv.2 73cv.2
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Out of control again Saturday night @ The Big M race 12, I guess Elite cleaned up again ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
8 LOUISVILLE GB Odds of 1/9, $2.20 $2.10 $2.10 Oh never mind she finished 4th ngc3 ngc3 ngc3
You can Cherry Pick you results and ignore the rest of the weekend 73cv.2 73cv.2 73cv.2 73cv.2
And the exacta n that race paid pathetically bad. I have no issue with a horse like louisville being 1/9. T Dog and queem sun ryser are a different story. I also don't care about results. It's about legitimacy of the odds board
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Bet 365 has proposed a lock in your price wager. It’s supposed to start in Colorado and only 1 or 2 tracks with gallopers. Don’t know if it will ever hit all of the states and include harness tracks.
https://harnessracingupdate.com/2024/12/20/bet365-first-u-s-sportsbook-offering-fixed-odds-wagering-on-horse-racing/
Not exactly sure how it will shape up, but they claim they will be taking bets on many of the major races, and at many harness tracks over the next two years. Right now I only see flats.