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General Category => Harness Racing => Topic started by: Winners Win on February 02, 2025, 11:07:53 PM

Title: How is a horse allowed to race sunday back tuesday
Post by: Winners Win on February 02, 2025, 11:07:53 PM
I Want My Money just finished 2nd at nfld and is scheduled to race Tuesday at NFLD.  Why is this allowed?
Title: Re: How is a horse allowed to race sunday back tuesday
Post by: Dingus on February 02, 2025, 11:37:09 PM
It’s Clegg.  What more do you expect from them?  They’re known for that.
Title: Re: How is a horse allowed to race sunday back tuesday
Post by: MCR on February 03, 2025, 04:34:19 AM
Ive noticed the great state of maine allows that as well. Especially during the fair season. Hard to believe i almost sent horses to race in that pathetic state
Title: Re: How is a horse allowed to race sunday back tuesday
Post by: Kole Hanover on February 03, 2025, 10:29:22 AM
Ive noticed the great state of maine allows that as well. Especially during the fair season. Hard to believe i almost sent horses to race in that pathetic state

 Do you feel the same about Ohio?

 I'm guessing the horses weren't much, if you debated sending them to Maine.

 Kind of a strange reason to call Maine a "pathetic State" over that.
Unless you have other reasons not listed or unknown.
Title: Re: How is a horse allowed to race sunday back tuesday
Post by: Papillon on February 03, 2025, 11:14:46 AM
back the 80s--Herve won the Open handicap at Yonkers on a Saturday night with Eastern Skipper

came back the next night and won the Open at Liberty Bell
Title: Re: How is a horse allowed to race sunday back tuesday
Post by: darnoldrocks on February 03, 2025, 11:21:02 AM
In an era where "horse safety" is supposedly on everyone's radar, it is hard to believe there isn't a rule against it. 
Title: Re: How is a horse allowed to race sunday back tuesday
Post by: Bitter Truth on February 03, 2025, 11:24:03 AM
It's their horse, their choice. Get your own horse, race 'em once a month, treat 'em like T-Bred if you want. tmbz1
Title: Re: How is a horse allowed to race sunday back tuesday
Post by: Papillon on February 03, 2025, 11:35:26 AM
In an era where "horse safety" is supposedly on everyone's radar, it is hard to believe there isn't a rule against it.

you must not recall Steve Lobell winning the Hambletonian in 75 or 76

they needed 4 heats to determine the winner
Title: Re: How is a horse allowed to race sunday back tuesday
Post by: Brown jug on February 03, 2025, 12:53:46 PM
why is it allowed
simply because he could not get in on Monday
Title: Re: How is a horse allowed to race sunday back tuesday
Post by: Arrive7100 on February 03, 2025, 12:59:47 PM
Back at the old Georgetown Raceway in Delaware, at least 1/2 the horses ran on Friday night and came back and ran Sunday afternoon. A few ran Saturday night and back again Sunday afternoon. In those days the purses for all the races were only $500 regardless of the class.
Title: Re: How is a horse allowed to race sunday back tuesday
Post by: old guy on February 03, 2025, 01:40:46 PM
back the 80s--Herve won the Open handicap at Yonkers on a Saturday night with Eastern Skipper

came back the next night and won the Open at Liberty Bell

Jim Lynch, the racing secretary at the time wasn’t happy when Herve entered the horse at Yonkers since he needed him at Liberty Bell. Herve said no problem he can race in both.
Title: Re: How is a horse allowed to race sunday back tuesday
Post by: halfinhalfout on February 03, 2025, 01:51:11 PM
if my memory serves me correctly, Mr. Filion came back to the winners circle at the Bell standing on the seat of his racebike....
Same as the Jug he won with Hot Hitter....a great showman, how many races could he have won?




Title: Re: How is a horse allowed to race sunday back tuesday
Post by: Papillon on February 03, 2025, 02:00:29 PM
Jim Lynch, the racing secretary at the time wasn’t happy when Herve entered the horse at Yonkers since he needed him at Liberty Bell. Herve said no problem he can race in both.

I bet Eastern Skipper in both races...the channel 9  WOR show with Bergstein and Ross would come on at 11:30-i would bet early(my father booked my bets)then wait for the 11:30 show to watch the races on delay

We went to Liberty Bell that Sunday night--the Saturday race obviously wasn't on the program lines--but several in the crowd avoided Eastern Skipper because he had just raced the night before at Yonkers

my mentality was the opposite--if Herve raced the next night-that told me the horse was razor sharp

he paid $8.00 to win at Liberty Bell

one of those "Herve moments" we all have somewhere buried in our memory banks
Title: Re: How is a horse allowed to race sunday back tuesday
Post by: Papillon on February 03, 2025, 02:07:33 PM
Jim Lynch, the racing secretary at the time wasn’t happy when Herve entered the horse at Yonkers since he needed him at Liberty Bell. Herve said no problem he can race in both.

Jim Lynch was an outstanding race secretary--he had to try and get M1 horses to race at Liberty Bell-but the purses were not nearly as good and it wasn't easy--Sunday nights many M1 invaders would race at LB and usually raced very well

M1 racing(and casinos in Atlantic city) eventually were the reasons Liberty Bell , Brandywine and Roosevelt were shuttered
Title: Re: How is a horse allowed to race sunday back tuesday
Post by: Parked on February 03, 2025, 02:27:31 PM
There is a rule before the usta that would require a 3 day rest.  Another would restrict 2 year olds to 20 races, 3 year olds 25 starts and aged horses 35 starts a year. 
Title: Re: How is a horse allowed to race sunday back tuesday
Post by: remington on February 03, 2025, 02:39:10 PM
For some reason i think there was a rule in the sixties and seventies, and it was three days maybe not?
Title: Re: How is a horse allowed to race sunday back tuesday
Post by: Arrive7100 on February 03, 2025, 02:42:26 PM
Back in the 70's alot of horses on the Georgetown/Wheeling Downs circuit had over 50 starts a year because alot of them also raced at the fairs.
Title: Re: How is a horse allowed to race sunday back tuesday
Post by: Winners Win on February 03, 2025, 03:02:02 PM
The doctor in Illinois that gives his 2 year olds like 25 starts might be the only other person who would enter them like this.  It is a joke cause a lot are barely getting in every other week at NFLD.  He is getting in twice in 3 days. 
Title: Re: How is a horse allowed to race sunday back tuesday
Post by: Meadow Ford on February 03, 2025, 03:15:34 PM
I know. I know. I am an out of touch old man.
I grew up racing two heats at the county fairs in the hot mid-west sun.
So racing at night in two days (IMHO) is no big deal.
Title: Re: How is a horse allowed to race sunday back tuesday
Post by: Winners Win on February 03, 2025, 03:18:57 PM
I know. I know. I am an out of touch old man.
I grew up racing two heats at the county fairs in the hot mid-west sun.
So racing at night in two days (IMHO) is no big deal.

It is almost a different breed from those days.  They were probably going in 220.  The horse was just all out in 55.  Horse is probably laying in the stall today.
Title: Re: How is a horse allowed to race sunday back tuesday
Post by: Brown jug on February 03, 2025, 03:28:40 PM
that proposal before the usta is going nowhere as it stands
Title: Re: How is a horse allowed to race sunday back tuesday
Post by: Meadow Ford on February 03, 2025, 03:32:44 PM
It is almost a different breed from those days.  They were probably going in 220.  The horse was just all out in 55.  Horse is probably laying in the stall today.
Well I was not a teenager that far back.
What ever the speed, they were lights on, horn blowing. all out on the floor board. They were all out no matter the speed, and then come back for a second heat.
And remember we (drivers) were cutting and slashing on them much more then today.
Title: Re: How is a horse allowed to race sunday back tuesday
Post by: Dostoevsky on February 03, 2025, 06:01:03 PM
you must not recall Steve Lobell winning the Hambletonian in 75 or 76

they needed 4 heats to determine the winner
And the horse literally almost died afterwards, resulting in the end of the four heat Hambletonian.
Title: Re: How is a horse allowed to race sunday back tuesday
Post by: Loose Horse on February 03, 2025, 06:07:09 PM
I remember looking at Sudbury programs from the 70s/80s and you would see horse with 70+ yearly starts throughout the program.
Title: Re: How is a horse allowed to race sunday back tuesday
Post by: Arrive7100 on February 03, 2025, 06:12:10 PM
The Little Brown Jug has gone 4 heats before they changed the rules. Back then you had to win 2 heats, say 16 horses were entered, with 2 eliminations of 8 horses each. You had a winner of each elimination and the top 4 horses from each elimination advanced to the 3rd heat but a different horse won the race, Therefore the 3 winners came back for a 4th heat to decide the winner.
Title: Re: How is a horse allowed to race sunday back tuesday
Post by: JT on February 03, 2025, 06:45:22 PM
The Little Brown Jug has gone 4 heats before they changed the rules. Back then you had to win 2 heats, say 16 horses were entered, with 2 eliminations of 8 horses each. You had a winner of each elimination and the top 4 horses from each elimination advanced to the 3rd heat but a different horse won the race, Therefore the 3 winners came back for a 4th heat to decide the winner.
Technically that is incorrect.. you had the eliminations then a 2nd heat and then a possible 3rd heat so a horse could go 3 times in 1 day. I've seen it multiple times in person and I'm sure Bitter Truth has as well. The 3rd heat would usually crawl to the half or 5/8 th and then sprint home. The most memorable for me I think was Western Hanover vs. Fake Left in 1992.

https://youtu.be/-OW7sxPC7AI?si=qDyO170ySz6j-FdX
Title: Re: How is a horse allowed to race sunday back tuesday
Post by: Arrive7100 on February 03, 2025, 06:48:53 PM
I explained it poorly. I know a horse can only race 3 times out of the 4 heats, because if there are 2 eliminations, you're only racing in one of them. In the final heat they usually crawl around the track and come a fast last quarter.
Title: Re: How is a horse allowed to race sunday back tuesday
Post by: JT on February 03, 2025, 06:53:20 PM
I explained it poorly. I know a horse can only race 3 times out of the 4 heats, because if there are 2 eliminations, you're only racing in one of them.
No worries  tmbz1.. I'm not for running a 2 year old into the ground but I do miss the possibility of a 3rd heat. I think one day the jug eliminations will be run at Scioto Downs on a Saturday a week and a half before the final in Delaware on Thursday.
Title: Re: How is a horse allowed to race sunday back tuesday
Post by: Arrive7100 on February 03, 2025, 06:57:47 PM
That's a wild idea! If that ever happens, I'm sure I won't be around to see it. Another thing they used to do when there were 3 eliminations and the top 3 finishers each advanced to the next heat. One of the 3rd place finishers ended up with the 9 hole in the 2nd tier, which was so unfair to the horses who finished 1st or 2nd in their elimination except for the horse who drew the rail.
Title: Re: How is a horse allowed to race sunday back tuesday
Post by: Bitter Truth on February 03, 2025, 06:58:49 PM
My favorite 1978 Bill Popfinger sitting 3rd behind Fight Director [Joe Obrien] and Falcon Almuhurst
[Billy Haughton] Obrien completely falls asleep after securing the front. Popfinger pulled and blasted
by with Happy Escort just past a 30.4 first 1/4 and went on to hold on to win it. My Dad had him. I believe 35-1 tmbz1
Title: Re: How is a horse allowed to race sunday back tuesday
Post by: Papillon on February 03, 2025, 07:15:13 PM
in 1975 Bonefish won the Hambletonian --winning the 4th heat
 in 1976 Steve Lobell did the same--and collapsed after the race

they changed rules after those back to back 4 heaters
Title: Re: How is a horse allowed to race sunday back tuesday
Post by: Bitter Truth on February 03, 2025, 07:18:55 PM
Now they can't even go two heats. I'm on record here that the Ky. Futurity should change its name.
Clearly not the same race so why even call it the same. Insult to past gritty winners.
Title: Re: How is a horse allowed to race sunday back tuesday
Post by: JT on February 03, 2025, 07:22:33 PM
That's a wild idea! If that ever happens, I'm sure I won't be around to see it. Another thing they used to do when there were 3 eliminations and the top 3 finishers each advanced to the next heat. One of the 3rd place finishers ended up with the 9 hole in the 2nd tier, which was so unfair to the horses who finished 1st or 2nd in their elimination except for the horse who drew the rail.
That would still happen if they ever had enough entries for 3 eliminations
Title: Re: How is a horse allowed to race sunday back tuesday
Post by: Arrive7100 on February 04, 2025, 06:42:00 AM
I'm not positive but think when they did away with having to win 2 heats, they only allowed 8 horses in the finals. If they had 3 elims, the top 2 finishers from each would advance along with the 2 fastest 3rd place finishers.
Title: Re: How is a horse allowed to race sunday back tuesday
Post by: Jctoronto on February 04, 2025, 06:59:07 AM
STRICTLY GAMBLING POV

Because of these quick turnarounds,
in ALL of these cases, next night, two nights later and to lesser extent same day heats, In all these cases, program will NOT have the past performance, the hidden line..no time to post it in a program or prob on line. LINE TO BE ANNOUNCED if you're lucky

I don't have to tell you veterans to
pay close attention, cause MANY times the horse in question comes back for more And you can't see it unless you catch Missing Chart Line off tv monitor in person or on your computer or phone

-
p.s. old bugaboo... When will joints like Northfield start going extra mile for fans and program info, and differentiate fathers and sons and brothers, etc on past performance lines.
Is it so hard to indicate Lo Ebersole when Logan drives..who the hell knows which L Ebersole was in bike last.
Or Br Rhoads or which T Tetrick or Tr Tetrick or To Tetrick other places. Or heavens knows, which Smith drove last six weeks in Ohio. Ty Smith or Tr Smith, for starters.
If you're lucky, you'll get a line properly designating this key info.

Simple stuff from a real simple guy. lol ty
Title: Re: How is a horse allowed to race sunday back tuesday
Post by: MCR on February 04, 2025, 07:43:12 AM
Do you feel the same about Ohio?

 I'm guessing the horses weren't much, if you debated sending them to Maine.

 Kind of a strange reason to call Maine a "pathetic State" over that.
Unless you have other reasons not listed or unknown.
Other reasons and no they weren't much which is why why they ended up pulling buggys
Title: Re: How is a horse allowed to race sunday back tuesday
Post by: PIGLAND on February 04, 2025, 08:05:58 AM
back in the day the little brown jub horses raced 2 times in 2 hours
Title: Re: How is a horse allowed to race sunday back tuesday
Post by: Sunmoon 1219 on February 04, 2025, 11:07:46 PM
Back in the day all the big races went 2 heats I remember wild wood Jeb for Larry Rolla winning 2 heats of the cane pace at Yonkers .
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