I agree 100% that anyone running a decent sized stable os going to have a positive here and there. The trainer I use (and any I would consider using) have the same types of positives: very intermittent overages on widely-accepted therapeutic drugs that are likely more a slight gamble and/or slow metabolism positive, so to speak.

You're also exactly right that no one is winning on hay and oats anymore. At minimum, some pretty high-tech vet maintenance, etc going on. Not all bad. As athletes, these things should have therapeutic drugs and procedures available.

As someone older and smarter than me once said, "I know it when I see it."

When I see it, most often, is taking a horse and immediately improving it 2-3 seconds. I can think of 3 or 4 without even delving into statistics that fit that observation. As someone who has been associated with a horse that did exactly this, I am certain it can and does happen for legitimate reasons..but it doesn't happen with the type of regularity some of these trainers average.
Another time it is very apparent is when someone takes a horse, vastly improves it for ~5 starts, and the horse disappears.
Finally, the marked pattern of detention equating to a subpar performance. I know a lot of horses don't love the change of routine. But..a lot of trainers don't, either

Thanks, and I agree. I've been in this sport and business, as a racehorse owner, a stallion share owner, on occasion as a breeder, and as a bettor, my entire adult life. While I am not a vet, or an expert on drugs, and the like, just from being around for soon to be approaching a half century, for whatever it's worth-----and it is not a qualified opinion-----I don't think this is a "pre-race" discussion today. I think whatever these cheaters are using and doing it's more a "regimen" or "program" or maybe a "cycle" kind of thing. Some of these bodybuilders do these things where they "cycle on" and "cycle off"-----but maybe that's more of a "steroid" thing. I don't know.

Yes, we've all seen the overnight and drastic improvement of a horse. I don't see it anywhere near as often as I used to, and that's because it's not happening anywhere near as often as it used to. I do remember a long time ago, I saw Bill Robinson take a horse that previously wore every piece of equipment known to mankind, he took everything off, raced the horse with nothing, and one week later the horse jogged and went about 3 seconds faster. Is the equipment the only thing he did? I don't know. But one week for a program, I don't know. Yes, pre-racing still exists, but I think there's much more going on.

The horsemen recently signed a contract guaranteeing racing thru 2028, didn't you get the memo?

yes but did you read MGM‘s financials? Not good.

either your Mike or Mike’s lackey either way it’s hideous

And you just posted I'm obsessed with you? And wasn't even responding to you, must be dementia.

Oops I doxxed Potus and The First Lady's address 

1600 Pennsylvania Ave NW, Washington, DC 20500

I'll see you in prison Mike, it's Meatloaf night.   

either your Mike or Mike’s lackey either way it’s hideous

Oops I doxxed Potus and The First Lady's address 

1600 Pennsylvania Ave NW, Washington, DC 20500

I'll see you in prison Mike, it's Meatloaf night.   

All part of their internet troll act like we buy it. Funniest part is they want my attention so bad they accuse me of being obsessed with them when in fact I wasn't even responding to them....

I love meatloaf, but I'll be on the toilet all night after.