Sorry everybody for all the Carmine banter - I will not comment on him after this post It was said that Carmine was a nice person and a very good trainer - I took issue with both these points ! He was not a friendly person at all - he was aloof and arrogant as far as a trainer he was awful, he WAS a superior catch driver to be sure and had an aura about him on the racetrack, but that's all. Ironically, Anthony, his brother WAS a very nice and giving person and a very good trainer ?horseman. Nuff sed. Will no longer belabor these points