Cheating in race draws?

[goblue]

Is it possible that races or parts of races are not being drawn randomly?  Where specific horses for maybe specific trainers are secretly slotted, and then the rest of the field is drawn?

I've seen several sets of race draws in the NYSS that seem statistically improbable/impossible.  Here me out.

There is a horse in the 3yofp NYSS series that has been drawing the #1 hole seemingly every NYSS/Excelsior leg (4 NY races in a row), while also drawing fields that are absolute JOKES compared to the other legs in each of those races.... Actually, the fields aren't just bad, they are HORRIBLE relative to the other legs.  This horse has banked thousands this past month while being terrible compared to the rest of the NYSS.  

This had me a little suspicious last week.  They just drew for Monticello.. and guess what?  The horse has the #1 hole again and is in a leg that will go 2-3 full seconds slower than the other.

The repetitive massive disparity in the legs alone is statistically improbable, but when you add on top of that a horse that draws the #1 hole in the worst leg four weeks in a row, you are approaching statistically IMPOSSIBLE range.....

[zoot]

this is a true story. during the height of the meadowlands, an acquaintance, who was a prominent owner, would deface the back of his entry slip. he would participate in the draw most nights he had a horse entered.  he was a tall man with large hands and easily could "palm" the 1 pill. when he saw the defaced slip next in the draw, he would go thru the motions of shaking the bottle and drawing a random pill but he was simply producing the pill he had palmed. im not sure the 1 hole at the meadowlands was that much of an edge back then, but it was better than the 10.

I wont mention his name but he was prominent and well liked. naturally he was a jew and took advantage of every perceived angle. I actually liked him other than the fact that he was "win at all cost". he was totally intimidated by his older "jew to the max" brother that put up all the money in the operation. I sure this caused many of the younger's behavior.

[zoot]

tey ran a condition on Friday night: nw3 or 75,000 lt.  usually they'd get enough for 3 divisions. same purse for all 3 which were supposed to be drawn randomly.

1 division would go around :58, and the other 2 would go around :55 and :53. u tell me.  if you had a horse that was 7th or 8th best in that group you got nothing.

[Rabbi Of Racing]

Joe Berry palmed the 1 pea hundreds of times here in Michigan

[zoot]

amazing guys could be that desperate

[Corby g]

Probably true about joe berry

[goblue]

The 3yofp NYSS/Excelsior Monticello draw for August 6th is statistically impossible without some sort of race secretary influence.  Everyone should check it out.  

Keep in mind that the previous 3yofp NYSS stop was at Batavia.  There were 3 NYSS legs and 2 Excelsior legs.

At Monticello on Monday, there are 2 NYSS legs and 3 Excelsior legs.  All 3 NYSS winners (Wisdom Tree, Alexis Faith, Ubettergogo) and the fastest 2nd place finisher (Pueblo Blue Chip) from Batavia drew into the exact same Monticello leg, while the other NYSS leg only has 1 horse that even hit the board at Batavia (the shitty horse I referenced in the initial posting that always draws the 1 hole).  Out of the 16 horses that entered, the 8 best are in one leg and the 8 worst are in another... the chance of this draw happening randomly is 1/198.9121, or a 0.503% chance.

On the same day at Monticello, one of the three Excelsior legs contains BOTH Excelsior winners from Batavia AND the only horse dropping from NYSS to Excelsior after Batavia, a horse who ran ~2 seconds faster than the fastest Excelsior leg in her NYSS loss to Wisdom Tree.  The other two Excelsior legs contain garbage.  This one 15K Excelsior leg is so lopsidedly strong that it will likely go faster than the shitty 60K NYSS leg.  Out of the 20 horses that entered Excelsior, the chance of the best 3 drawing into the same leg is roughly 6%.  

The chance of both of these draws "randomly" happening on the exact same race day? 0.03%, or 1 in every 3,333 draws this would happen.

It is therefore statistically impossible that there is no influence into these race draws.  There's no arguing with these numbers, and they should be brought to the attention of someone who can address this problem.

[the master]

Amazing what a person who possesses slight of hand can accomplish! You watch these guys doing magic live with cameras all over the place and people watching every move and you still can't see anything! However, this shit with the draw has been going on for ever! What jerks my chain is that most tracks, now days, shut the door in your face when its draw time! No horseman's rep or token horseman present! You have no idea what's going on and you can be sure there is plenty of hanky panky or else why would it be such a big secret? And this deal where they say the entries are submitted to the USTA and drawn by computer! Really?

[Fair is fair]

Sean Galbraith got busted years ago at northfield. He would use yellow trotting entry slip for a pacer so he knew when his horse was being pulled and he would palm the rail or 2 hole.

[slivercharm]

lol didn't that women get caught doing it in Chicago husband was a trainer had that trotter abra kadabra

[caddy]

I am almost positive they seed the divisions so that the fields are more fairly matched. The race secretaries believe that will stimulate more handle.

The USTA assures that the randomizer generates the post positions - and, when a horse is in a slump w/ outside posts that they've researched it and sabre metrics over the course of a year, all even out.  NOW, the problem is if you own the horse during the lousy draw spell - then the horse gets claimed and hits the mid post positions, well - it might even out over the course of the year; but, it sure don't even out specific to each owner.

 

[goblue]

The little guy has no chance, as this race secretary has a penchant for rewarding big stables and saying fuck you to mom and pop which in my opinion is criminal. One should never ask for or expect favors but one should always demand fairness and unfortunately it doesn't happen at Monticello.

I couldn't agree with you more.  This is absolutely criminal, and it is as blatant as could be.   

[Nameaintbrian]

lol didn't that women get caught doing it in Chicago husband was a trainer had that trotter abra kadabra

That Edward William kid accused Connie of fixing the draws and homer and Connie sued him and won 25k. That kid disappeared quick right after that. Connie would never do something like that.

[bond]

None of those races at Monticello should be manipulated/seeded in any way BUT I BET THEY WERE. Monticello needs to be investigated immediately. The draw for all races, not only stake races is blatantly illegal. The race secretary, not the judges is now responsible for the draw, as Monticello now uses the electronic drawing system. The ability to hand out PP's/favors has never been easier with this new system. There is absolutely no transparency. Couple that with separating horses/stables when going 2 or more divisions of any class and you can imagine what one can accomplish. The little guy has no chance, as this race secretary has a penchant for rewarding big stables and saying fuck you to mom and pop which in my opinion is criminal. One should never ask for or expect favors but one should always demand fairness and unfortunately it doesn't happen at Monticello. Make no mistake about it, the corruption at Monticello starts at the very top. Unfortunately, when you have an incompetent, lazy and possibly corrupt horsemen's association president at the helm, it makes things awfully easy for criminal activity.

  Great post one of the best ever.

IMHO-this has been a major root cause of harness racing demise--race fixing draws-taking care of certain individuals.
Race secretaries seeding races-fair enough if it makes racing competitive thats his job-but in many cases-its just looking after certain barns-thats completely asinine.
Why cant anyone watch the draw when horses get claimed? This really pisses owners off--I know one owner tried to claim many times only to never get a multiple claim at Pocono.
Why isnt there a draw for the also eligibles?
why are stakes races seeded?? For example-a small stable has a nice 2yo-but he may be 6,7,8th best-so if he draws in a division with all the good ones he gets NADA whereas in other divisions-he hits the board. Stakes racing should be completely at random.
Yes slight of hand at draws can be easily achieved--a totally independent operation thats unbiased should do draws--maybe send entries to this operation-and they do the draw-then send the post positions back--sounds good to me since the draw in harness racing is so important.

[slivercharm]

That Edward William kid accused Connie of fixing the draws and homer and Connie sued him and won 25k. That kid disappeared quick right after that. Connie would never do something like that.

Thanks. Rian sorry didn't remember the whole story