Successfull trainers who don’t cheat

[horses first]

There have been two indictments with Allard and Surick totalling 13 dead horses because of the shit they gave them. Someone has a beef about social media and jumping the gun. Whatever. These fucks will get some plea deal but not before jail time, fines, and being barred for life training a horse.

[TTitans1]

Not true. I know many trainers that literally race on hay and oats and actually do well. Sure, if they blew their heads off, they may be even better but they race clean. FACT!
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Again, WHO? Another one who knows a bunch but can`t name one!

[the master]

As one of the more astute plopsters alluded to, you have to clearly define exactly what cheating is! States furnish extensive lists of therapeutic drugs with acceptable withdrawal times! Are you a cheater if you use this information to try and remain competitive? I say no!  Furthermore, is a trainer a crook if he administers himself because his vet, or any vet is unavailable?  Once again, I don't think so!  Are you a thief if you dispense illegal pain killers or blood builders or worse yet, unknown substances that could harm or possibly kill! I wouldn't feel that I have to answer that! All you holier than thou people out there that feel differently should be aware that despite the extensive list of indictments, there are honest, caring trainers out there who treat their horses like royalty! Horses are among the most noble of animals on the planet they generally take what people dish out and only ask to be fed and cared for! And by the way, honest trainers do win races and always pay their bills using the tools that are available, mainly horsemanship and classification!

[C FAUROT JR]

THAT'S RIGHT, WE NEED TO CLEAN THIS SPORT UP AND GET RID OF THE CHEAT'S. SOONER THE BETTER 

[TTitans1]

I was in the business for 35 years and know the difference between the theraputic drugs and the blood builders, steroids, painkillers, etc. that are over the line. Yea, there are trainers who just use the theraputics like dex, bute, banamine, robaxin, etc. but they aren`t beating the guys using the next big thing. I went through the shake years and most all tried it. I went through the EPO years and most that could get there hands on it tried it. The honest guys are gone! Most of the people who know these guys if they are connected tried this shit as well. They were dealing it by the sounds of the recordings. There is going to be a lot more on the list if this is a complete investigation and it certainly looks that way. I am definitely not holier than thou, just speaking the truth. I raced at about 10-15 tracks in my day and met a lot of people in the game. The reason most horsemen turn a blind eye or worse yet stand up and protect the guys with the edge is because you want the edge yourself. It`s been going on forever. The worst thing that happened to racing was the increase in purses because all it did was allow the big players to come up with bigger chemistry sets and push the honest guys out. If they didn`t get the slots, the business would have been dead long ago. Maybe it`s finally time to bury it for good. This is one group that was racing in both standardbred and the runners using this shit and no + tests! How many other big name guys are doing the same? Even the vets all come up with recipes that they give to their customers. Quit with your "holier than thou" bullshit and the good honest trainer crap because you are full of shit!

[cr dawg]

Fellows had a good 2 year old die in training, on the track at Mohawk I think? What was his name, Keystone something??? Anyways, is a 2year old having a heart attack commonl?

[okdfool]

Fellows had a good 2 year old die in training, on the track at Mohawk I think? What was his name, Keystone something??? Anyways, is a 2year old having a heart attack commonl?

Heart defects in 2 yr olds is not uncommin, it happens...

[Freedom at Last]

That's right Dickhead. I do know a bunch of honest horsemen and because they race clean, they have earned the right to privacy unlike the cheating POS who forfeited anonymity by breaking the law. Apparently you don't know any because you were or are a cheating POS who surrounded himself with cheating POS. BLOW ME DOUCHE BAG
[/quote]
I would think you would be helping them out and not hurting them by giving their name.

[Nostrathomas]

Agree carnival, not everyone does things the same way though. Doesn’t mean there a chemist or juicing. Some horseman are simply gonna be better than others.  I’m glad we’re cleaning house with these bad apples. Hope they get some more. I’m tired of these guys taking money out of my pocket. Just want a level playing field

It's true, some clean horseman are better than other clean horseman, but given any group of say, 10 totally clean trainers of varying ability that we'll say are from slightly below average, to very good, the differences in performance would still be moderate. Assuming all use good quality feed and hay, competent farriers, and good honest vets, and all have programs of 4 to 5 miles of jogging a day, with a training mile mid week, it is mathematically impossible for any one of these hypothetical trainers to improve upon any other, by more than one second, at the most.
On a totally level playing field, the "good" trainers would bat around .290, and the less talented ones would range from .220 to .250. That's what an honest racetrack leader board should look like, because devoid of drugs, it becomes all about the natural ability of the horse. The trainer's influence in a clean game would be 10-15 percent of the equation, at most.

[the master]

I was in the business for 35 years and know the difference between the theraputic drugs and the blood builders, steroids, painkillers, etc. that are over the line. Yea, there are trainers who just use the theraputics like dex, bute, banamine, robaxin, etc. but they aren`t beating the guys using the next big thing. I went through the shake years and most all tried it. I went through the EPO years and most that could get there hands on it tried it. The honest guys are gone! Most of the people who know these guys if they are connected tried this shit as well. They were dealing it by the sounds of the recordings. There is going to be a lot more on the list if this is a complete investigation and it certainly looks that way. I am definitely not holier than thou, just speaking the truth. I raced at about 10-15 tracks in my day and met a lot of people in the game. The reason most horsemen turn a blind eye or worse yet stand up and protect the guys with the edge is because you want the edge yourself. It`s been going on forever. The worst thing that happened to racing was the increase in purses because all it did was allow the big players to come up with bigger chemistry sets and push the honest guys out. If they didn`t get the slots, the business would have been dead long ago. Maybe it`s finally time to bury it for good. This is one group that was racing in both standardbred and the runners using this shit and no + tests! How many other big name guys are doing the same? Even the vets all come up with recipes that they give to their customers. Quit with your "holier than thou" bullshit and the good honest trainer crap because you are full of shit!

         I can see what kind of trainer you must have been!  10,000 reasons why your horses couldn't function rather than looking in the mirror!  Always everyone else's fault!  You think I'm full of shit because that's all you know!

[Here they come]

Agree nostrathomas, but also not just the trainer. Some farriers better than others, some vets are better than others. If you have a trainer who has a better overall team, that could what separates them from the others. You mentioned 1 second better. That’s 5 lengths. 👍

[Village Idiot]

Jim Mullinex (trainer of A Rock-n-Roll Dance)

[The Exporter]

It's true, some clean horseman are better than other clean horseman, but given any group of say, 10 totally clean trainers of varying ability that we'll say are from slightly below average, to very good, the differences in performance would still be moderate. Assuming all use good quality feed and hay, competent farriers, and good honest vets, and all have programs of 4 to 5 miles of jogging a day, with a training mile mid week, it is mathematically impossible for any one of these hypothetical trainers to improve upon any other, by more than one second, at the most.
On a totally level playing field, the "good" trainers would bat around .290, and the less talented ones would range from .220 to .250. That's what an honest racetrack leader board should look like, because devoid of drugs, it becomes all about the natural ability of the horse. The trainer's influence in a clean game would be 10-15 percent of the equation, at most.

The way condition races are written, it would support your theory.

[cr dawg]

Heart defects in 2 yr olds is not uncommin, it happens...

Thanks Rob

[VicD]

Someone told me Lou Pena was clean, I can't remember who..
Oh wait, it was Lou Pena...