Julie Miller and Ake Svanstedt Order To Return Purse Money / Big Bucks

[Stan durbread]

And you might want to reread the indictments. One of the makers of the drugs warned you might get a Dex positive. And this ain’t the first for Miller

[bond]

Your logic is horribly flawed. The horse tested at 17Pg/Ml. Based on your theory of 30,000 Ml in a horse the total level would be 510,000 Pg in the horses system

Stan--510,00 PICROGRAMS in his system EQUALS 0.0005mg at the time he raced---does ANYONE ANYWHERE believe that 0.0005mg has any effect on a horse-ie  affect his performance??
The clearance levels are set too low IMHO
Ill wait.

[Calhoun]

does ANYONE ANYWHERE believe that 0.0005mg has any effect on a horse-ie  affect his performance??
The clearance levels are set too low IMHO
Ill wait.

It's like being a little bit pregnant.

Right?

[Parked]

Cop stops me… you were going 55 in a 40 zone.  I tell him this a straight road with no houses within 3 miles and the speed limit should be 55.  Sorry , its the law, here is the ticket.   Tell the judge the same thing.  Sorry its the law, 3 points, $100 fine and $100 surcharge. 

             
      ITS THE LAW, STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM YOUR HORSES WITH THIS STUFF                         

[pocketrocketwinner]

Cop stops me… you were going 55 in a 40 zone.  I tell him this a straight road with no houses within 3 miles and the speed limit should be 55.  Sorry , its the law, here is the ticket.   Tell the judge the same thing.  Sorry its the law, 3 points, $100 fine and $100 surcharge. 

             
      ITS THE LAW, STAY THE HELL AWAY FROM YOUR HORSES WITH THIS STUFF                         

TBred guys like Baffy love to say the same thing when they get popped. People are sick and tired of hearing them tell us that rules aren't fair.

[bond]

It's like being a little bit pregnant.

Right?

No--wrong-Betamethasone IS allowed---its not 0--  levels above 5pg/ml-ie an "overage" will result in a positive.
Officials and racing administrators are under the gun to outlaw "cheats" to improve integrity of racing and make bettors belive everything is on the up and up.
They cant catch the real cheats-that is the chemists in the game--you need the FBI for that.
So whats happening-they take therapeutic drugs that they know are being used extensively and easy to test for-make levels insanely LOW-and make a huge fanfare when they catch someone--preferably someone like Baffert--much publicity--OR they take a poor trainer and throw the book at him make him a "scapegoat"--so people think that they are doing a great job.
The general public--including many on this site-dont seem to make a distinction between a therapeutic drug-used to make horses healthier-OR a performance enhancer like EPO-or what the indicted were using --to cheat.
Cant blame the public-they are not scientists--all they hear is the word "drug" and the haters are off to the races. This is how the officials get away with this BS dupe the public while the real cheats remain at large -which needs to end ASAP. Make "overages" sensible to allow honest trainers do their job- and let the FBI go after the cheats. Laboratories --are secondary as the drug cheats over the last 100 or more years--are always a step ahead.

[mwins]

Bond: Your logic and examples makes sense, but I'm no scientist. You have to understand that this place is comprised of mostly haters, so logic does not really play into most subjects.
It is a lot like arguing politics. People have their minds made up, and reasoning is not a factor.

Thanks for your perspective.

[Calhoun]

No--wrong-Betamethasone IS allowed---its not 0--  levels above 5pg/ml-ie an "overage" will result in a positive.
Officials and racing administrators are under the gun to outlaw "cheats" to improve integrity of racing and make bettors belive everything is on the up and up.
They cant catch the real cheats-that is the chemists in the game--you need the FBI for that.
So whats happening-they take therapeutic drugs that they know are being used extensively and easy to test for-make levels insanely LOW-and make a huge fanfare when they catch someone--preferably someone like Baffert--much publicity--OR they take a poor trainer and throw the book at him make him a "scapegoat"--so people think that they are doing a great job.
The general public--including many on this site-dont seem to make a distinction between a therapeutic drug-used to make horses healthier-OR a performance enhancer like EPO-or what the indicted were using --to cheat.
Cant blame the public-they are not scientists--all they hear is the word "drug" and the haters are off to the races. This is how the officials get away with this BS dupe the public while the real cheats remain at large -which needs to end ASAP. Make "overages" sensible to allow honest trainers do their job- and let the FBI go after the cheats. Laboratories --are secondary as the drug cheats over the last 100 or more years--are always a step ahead.

Oh please.

"overages"
"drug"
"scapegoat"
"cheats"

You try to turn those words into a kinda, sorta, no biggie deal slang in order to rationalize, excuse and normalize bad actions.

You claim you know better than me.  Trust me, I know FAR more about this than you.

I'm no scientist.

Right.

Now, please, Fuck all the way off.

[pocketrocketwinner]

Bond: Your logic and examples makes sense, but I'm no scientist. You have to understand that this place is comprised of mostly haters, so logic does not really play into most subjects.
It is a lot like arguing politics. People have their minds made up, and reasoning is not a factor.

Thanks for your perspective.

Can you explain the logic in "zero tolerance" from Jeff Gural regarding Lou Pena's non banned race day meds overages and today's 100% tolerance when his own trainers get popped?

[bond]

Oh please.

"overages"
"drug"
"scapegoat"
"cheats"

You try to turn those words into a kinda, sorta, no biggie deal slang in order to rationalize, excuse and normalize bad actions.

You claim you know better than me.  Trust me, I know FAR more about this than you.
Right.

Now, please, Fuck all the way off.

Slang? "trust me" WTF--I dont know you so certainly dont trust you. Id love to know your credentials in order for me to make a rational judgment about what you"know".
For arguments sake lets assume you know all about medications--then if you did you would know that Julie Miller and Ake Svandstett DID play by the rules imposed by officials--they even have the Vets confirming this--but thanks to advanced laboratory techniques using the latest LC/MS equipment and ridiculously low thresholds for certain easy to detect drugs--you would know that they got "shafted"
I never mentioned that its a "NO BIGGIE" but a level of .0005Mg of Betamethasone is certainly not worthy of costing them 10-'s of thousands of dollars and losing a stakes race for something that didnt affect performance.. A fine --yes--thats it. Now if it was a performance enhancer-like anabolics or EPO then 0 tolerance and heavy penalties enforced.
Thats all Im saying--Id like to see racing cleaned up just like everyone else--but penalties like those for Betamethasone at infinitely low levels are not the way to go.
Indictments and Jail time for PED's-catching people red handed by the FBI---IS.

[The Exporter]

Of the other few hundred horses that race on that day across the country, how many of them came up positive?
 I totally agree with your point in assessing the value of a extremely low count of a therapeutic overage. It is akin to a speeding ticket when compared to the stuff the others are under criminal indictment for.  But, if you get enough speeding tickets, like Baffert, you must be dealt a penalty that will sway your current practices.  We must not allow ones influence and power to give them their own set of rules.
 So if these two pushed the envelope and got snagged by the hair on their ass, they should be given a penalty that will entice them too, to rethink their program.

[Parked]

Of the other few hundred horses that race on that day across the country, how many of them came up positive?
 I totally agree with your point in assessing the value of a extremely low count of a therapeutic overage. It is akin to a speeding ticket when compared to the stuff the others are under criminal indictment for.  But, if you get enough speeding tickets, like Baffert, you must be dealt a penalty that will sway your current practices.  We must not allow ones influence and power to give them their own set of rules.
 So if these two pushed the envelope and got snagged by the hair on their ass, they should be given a penalty that will entice them too, to rethink their program.

Hair on their ass The threshold  is 5 they had 67 and 68.  Its a shell game of what they are testing for and the clam was still in the shell….  This therapeutic stuff is crap.  Either they are loaded or they aren’t.   

[bond]

Can you explain the logic in "zero tolerance" from Jeff Gural regarding Lou Pena's non banned race day meds overages and today's 100% tolerance when his own trainers get popped?

There is no logic when it comes to who Gural bans at his tracks.He employs haters and butt kissers-who fill up Gurals head with who he should ban--mostly just based on hearsay and who has the most power or connections..eg if you are a trainer and your best friend came up positive and is banned by Gurals butt kissers-you may get banned as well just because hes your best friend-- so you must be no good as well!-- In Penas case -he had 1700 supposedly violations where he administered medications inside the required guidelines. Why he didnt get popped in NY remains a mystery to this day-either there was no testing done,his samples never got tested,or the equipment and staff were incompetent.The question was asked when he appeared in Court-and the answer from Maylin the chief 'analyst" was "I just dont know". Pena won his case but of course NYRA never admits they may have screwed up--or follow the Law if they dont like it-so they banned him and gave him a massive fine.  He should never have been banned by Gural--because he was found not guitly in a Court of Law. I do agree however what Pena did deserved a long suspension as "stacking" is now a severe penalty.However life goes on-he served his time for something he was found not guilty on-so he should be allowed to race in NJ and NY.. Even murderers get their life back at some point.

[AGUA CALIENTE]

All Good Christians, ASK the GURU,Lucpark. Tell them Lucpark.

[Brown jug]

more good points bond
its like covid testing, even if you have the most minute trace and no symptoms you are included in the positive group versus someone who has covid and is very  ill
here is another example, if i drink a mouthful of vodka and someone else drinks the bottle and they test us both for  traces of vodka we are both positive although clearly we are in drastically different stages of consumption
rules are rules and if the limit is exceeded than they should pay a fine  but thats all