Jeff Gural is Threatening to close Vernon Downs

[remington]

Gural only cars about money. He and his partners bought the two Ny tracks thinking that they were going to get a full casino license. They also leased the Meadowlands believing the same thing. I heard him say at Vernon last year that he was going to close the Meadowlands within ten years. He doesn't care he will be dead by that time. It wouldn't matter if they were full casinos because he has no idea how to run them or the tracks.

[The Exporter]

I respect your opinion, concerning Gural. So, if Jeffery was not involved in Vernon or Tioga, and they were run by others, they would be in better shape?
 Vernon Downs has not turned a profit in over 20 years. Tioga's last profit was never. As a Quarter Horse track, it never made a dime. I don't think it is Jeffery's fault.

[Senator Blutarsky]

I respect your opinion, concerning Gural. So, if Jeffery was not involved in Vernon or Tioga, and they were run by others, they would be in better shape?
 Vernon Downs has not turned a profit in over 20 years. Tioga's last profit was never. As a Quarter Horse track, it never made a dime. I don't think it is Jeffery's fault.

Location Location Location exactly....the anti-moses took what ever he could that no one else wanted, ya know it's bad when the lowest bidder wins!!! 

[JUICEJUNKIES]

    True dat!

And the biggest JG elephant in the Jeff Gural Vernon Downs room - the Turning Stone Casino and Resort of the Oneida Indian Nation competition, neighbor and free of NY state taxes...LOL....pi ck your spots better JG, pick your spots buddy! 

ONE (Oneida Nation Enterprises) pays their fair share.   They do right locally and have provided more infrastructure spurring non native growth.

Get a clue

[JUICEJUNKIES]

I know, point taken....They don't exactly have the infrastructure to have a government - courts, prisons, big infrastructure, etc, they do just fine though lol!  No federal taxes too for those gaming operations!    

Wrong again.   They have their own police, own entire government, own jails and substations.  They have a very nice court house.

You talk about everything but its evident you have no clue about anything.

[JUICEJUNKIES]

Since day 1 of Jeff gural the storyline changes or the goalposts are moved to suit his most recent ploy.

Jeff gural is the sole reason vernon is failing.   Rather then stick to his plans he has lied, cheated, and changed paths so many times he has no support.   

Jeff needs to revisit his plans from the very first day he got involved.   Then make notes of all his dementia driven drivel and maybe issue some apologies to the folks he has disenfranchised and make amends to those he has alienated.   

But he’s old and rich so he’ll just continue to be a bully and ignore what he’s created.   

[remington]

Juice you are right.

[Calhoun]

Since day 1 of Jeff gural the storyline changes or the goalposts are moved to suit his most recent ploy.

Jeff gural is the sole reason vernon is failing.   Rather then stick to his plans he has lied, cheated, and changed paths so many times he has no support.   

Jeff needs to revisit his plans from the very first day he got involved.   Then make notes of all his dementia driven drivel and maybe issue some apologies to the folks he has disenfranchised and make amends to those he has alienated.   

But he’s old and rich so he’ll just continue to be a bully and ignore what he’s created.

This is the best opinion we will see on this subject.

Respect

[Senator Blutarsky]

Wrong again.   They have their own police, own entire government, own jails and substations.  They have a very nice court house.

You talk about everything but its evident you have no clue about anything.

No, you're absolutely wrong, they have some infrastructure to handle tidleywink bs like just about all Indian Nations....now you are going to force the Ploppers to read and they hate that shit!

https://www.oneidaindiannation.com/court/

The NYS compact with their tribe (78 pages):

https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:17pCwd1I1CgJ:https://www.tax.ny.gov/pdf/publications/oin_settlement_agreement.pdf&cd=25&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-b-1-d

Their VP - PIO will be calling me back as per their Exec Sec Sean, and I'll get more layman specifics to report herein....Don't be waiving that finger at me Junky without washing that thing....smells like asshole ass! 

[Senator Blutarsky]

Juice you are right.

Juice Junky makes very limited faceted arguments, he's an aspecific biased pundit, NOT STUPID though, and he provides no evidence ie "cheating", evidence Junky!, not just on your say so and lead the ignorant herein off your cliff bro!

Add that one to your stack of losing tickets and you ladder up to the moon!   

[Janny]

Was there back in the 70’s working for McNulty, Gene Sears, Don Larlee, et al. The barn area would get all the big stables at that time coming through each summer, e.g., Castleton Farms (trainer Glen Garnsey), Billy Haughton, Stanley Dancer, etc, etc.

[CMJAnew]

Gural absolutely does not care if the tracks make money - period. But he does care if the slots parlor and casino do. And…..he cares about the employees of both.
I don’t know if it’s still true today…..but there was a time a few years ago, Tioga was the only profitable (non-Indian) casino in the state. And that includes the $80,000 to $100,000 per day/night loss he takes on the racing.
NYS - 11,000,000 or 13,000,000 … would that 2,000,000 even be noticeable on the ledger? It’s actually less than that when various taxes on the employment is are considered.
If not for the whacky governor, I’d say a deal gets struck. But that woman is OUT THERE.

[Locked in with pace]

He'll never close Vernon. He's playing the "threaten Game" trying to get tax relief.

[The Exporter]

Back about 10 years ago, then Gov. Cuomo was throwing a temper tantrum about the Oneida Nation not paying the state a dime in the agreed tax schedule. So, Andy put together a deal that gave the Oneida Indian Nation exclusive rights to a vast market. A market that handcuffed Vernon Downs and their casino. It also Gerrymandered the voting districts to give almost exclusive control to his Democratic party.
 It was so favoring the Indians, Vernon could not even advertise in neighboring counties. Yet, The Oneida Nation could do as they please even, advertise in front of Vernon downs.
Vernon Racino got the kiss of death 10 years ago. It has been granted concessions from the state for reduced taxes, giving it a couple years of life. But, at an age of almost 80 with no apparent heirs interested in a country casino that has a clientele of almost the same age, time to let it all go.
 But don't kid yourself, nobody before Jeffery and nobody after him will give what he has given to VD.
 Time waits for no one. 

[Senator Blutarsky]

Back about 10 years ago, then Gov. Cuomo was throwing a temper tantrum about the Oneida Nation not paying the state a dime in the agreed tax schedule. So, Andy put together a deal that gave the Oneida Indian Nation exclusive rights to a vast market. A market that handcuffed Vernon Downs and their casino. It also Gerrymandered the voting districts to give almost exclusive control to his Democratic party.
 It was so favoring the Indians, Vernon could not even advertise in neighboring counties. Yet, The Oneida Nation could do as they please even, advertise in front of Vernon downs.
Vernon Racino got the kiss of death 10 years ago. It has been granted concessions from the state for reduced taxes, giving it a couple years of life. But, at an age of almost 80 with no apparent heirs interested in a country casino that has a clientele of almost the same age, time to let it all go.
 But don't kid yourself, nobody before Jeffery and nobody after him will give what he has given to VD.
 Time waits for no one.

 

From my perspective as a race analyst / gambler to always be cognizant of 3 things perpetually in the aforementioned (relative to this discussion) and in my life too:

Be Honest
Be Objective
Be Wiser than have a zero sum solution mindset

You know your shit, it really can't be said better.  Very good prognostication and final memory too - exactly like that.

It made me think to look on a map of what's been within 75 miles of both the racino and casino as Vernon itself is so tiny and unsustainable.  If anyone has driven through Atlantic City 25 years ago, they know how a huge gambling footprint impacts a city, devastating for the weak minded.

I wish the communities well, and it's time to rid at least from the race track perspective and consolidate with what works, making ie larger pools, better energy...It's such a disaster that the BigY and BigM would literally have to combine their best assets to make one excellent Meadowlands of the old....how fucked up is that!