Top 5 3 yr. old pacers in history revisited

[JIDGE]

I’ll be first to admit he is a great horse when he done this year……. If !!!!!  He goes to the jug,  AND WINS !!  And then finishes up with a win in the breeders.. 
I don’t want to read how great he is, I want to see it… race on Confederate.

He's not going to the Jug -- if everything works out -- Cannibal goes to the Jug -- Confederate stays in Ky. for the Sire Stake final on the 17th. -- then it's off to Indiana.

[Fuguzzi]

He's not going to the Jug -- if everything works out -- Cannibal goes to the Jug -- Confederate stays in Ky. for the Sire Stake final on the 17th. -- then it's off to Indiana.

Thats what I'm seeing

[Fuguzzi]

Love the sarcasm - HE BELONGS AT THE JUG

[jupiter]

I think he has proven how good he is. Why take him to the jug, draw an 8 hole. People don't buy horses because they won the JUG, I think he'll do just fine in the stud barn without having been in the JUG. Didn't hurt Rocknroll Hanover.

[wisha roder]

Life Sign's Jug final is the greatest performance by a 3 year old on a half mile,it defies explanation

Personally, i always liked the jug year when Fake Left beat Western Hanover.  Great effort.  Life Sign was a nice race horse but i totally side-step any yearling with Life Sign in the pedigree. 

[Fuguzzi]

Personally, i always liked the jug year when Fake Left beat Western Hanover.  Great effort.  Life Sign was a nice race horse but i totally side-step any yearling with Life Sign in the pedigree.

That's fine. I know zero about breeding.

[Lance]

Personally, i always liked the jug year when Fake Left beat Western Hanover.  Great effort.  Life Sign was a nice race horse but i totally side-step any yearling with Life Sign in the pedigree.

Life Sign did sire some very good horses....none that went on to be sires, but he was a very good broodmare sire.

[JIDGE]

Life Sign did sire some very good horses....none that went on to be sires, but he was a very good broodmare sire.

His son Real Desire actually was a decent sire and the grand-sire of Stockade Seelster -- so far the only hope to keep that Abercrombie line alive.

[Jackie Mo]

I knew people would have problems with Artsplace because of a spotty 3 year old campaign.

As for Confederate instantly cracking the top 5 - he deserves it once he establishes himself as the fastest 3 year old ever.

Life Sign - you certainly dont have to sell me on him. I was ta the LBJ in 93 - very fortunate because it's the only pone I have ever been to. His win there, IMO, remains the greatest performance ever by a 3 year olfd on a half mile track. His win defied logic.

Hello Fuguzzi,

thanks for the trips dowm memory lane--i enjoyed many of your stories from decades ago.....

as far as having Artsplace on your list as a top 3yo season, that is laughable.

Artsplace was a champion 2yo and had an undefeated 4yo season, but calling his 3yo season "spotty" is flat out inaccurate. A chemically enhanced Precious Bunny dominated him all year in 1991..the head to head record was 7-2.
If that is your definition of "spotty" then ok. Also, Artsplace wasnt sick as a 3yo--i met one of the syndicate mempers at Harrahs Chester about 15 years ago, he told me flat out that Precious Bunny was milkshaked and had other EPOs in his sytsem, and he couldnt beat Bill Robinson. He emphasized Artsplace wasnt sick whatsoever, just got his ass kicked all year. Thank you, Sir.

[Brown jug]

on a slightly different but connected topic
you are seeing the proof of some of these milkshaked/epo horses that were duds at stud
cassie horses have been bad for the most part
none of bill robinsons did much of anything

now i am in no way suggesting that other top trainers are not helping horses but clearly they are not crossing the line as i think these two did along with others

[Fuguzzi]

Hello Fuguzzi,

thanks for the trips dowm memory lane--i enjoyed many of your stories from decades ago.....

as far as having Artsplace on your list as a top 3yo season, that is laughable.

Artsplace was a champion 2yo and had an undefeated 4yo season, but calling his 3yo season "spotty" is flat out inaccurate. A chemically enhanced Precious Bunny dominated him all year in 1991..the head to head record was 7-2.
If that is your definition of "spotty" then ok. Also, Artsplace wasnt sick as a 3yo--i met one of the syndicate mempers at Harrahs Chester about 15 years ago, he told me flat out that Precious Bunny was milkshaked and had other EPOs in his sytsem, and he couldnt beat Bill Robinson. He emphasized Artsplace wasnt sick whatsoever, just got his ass kicked all year. Thank you, Sir.

Ok, Ty for the info. I used "spotty" because it in no way did it compare to his 2 and 4 year old seasons. I was including him in a list that although I called it "best 3 year olds ever" I was really saying the best Pacers I have lived to see. thinking back, I could esily include Jenna's Beach Boy. I do believe your assertions that Precious Bunny was a pig with out chemistry. I never cared for him or his connections and he was a lousy sire.  ( over all ) His mares were all whack jobs for one. I appreciate your putting things into greater clarity.

[Jackie Mo]

Ok, Ty for the info. I used "spotty" because it in no way did it compare to his 2 and 4 year old seasons. I was including him in a list that although I called it "best 3 year olds ever" I was really saying the best Pacers I have lived to see. thinking back, I could esily include Jenna's Beach Boy. I do believe your assertions that Precious Bunny was a pig with out chemistry. I never cared for him or his connections and he was a lousy sire.  ( over all ) His mares were all whack jobs for one. I appreciate your putting things into greater clarity.

No worries

just a side note, while i dont disagree with Nihilator being on the list, there are many who claim he had help(Pershing Square, Chairmanoftheboar d and a few others whose names escape me) setting road blocks up for Nihilator--being a part of a three and four team coupled entry with stablemates might put an asterisk next to Nihilator's
 name--having said that i agree he should be on the list.

[Fuguzzi]

May very well have had help. He was just so powerful, along stride like daddy and if you look at his resume, He has so many "first to ever" or "most ever". of course many of those records have been broken now. I was the BigM all of 85 and he spent a lot of time there.

I know Dr. Seeber was at the Haughton barn like a resident   LOL   I like your perspectives, ty!

[Jackie Mo]

May very well have had help. He was just so powerful, along stride like daddy and if you look at his resume, He has so many "first to ever" or "most ever". of course many of those records have been broken now. I was the BigM all of 85 and he spent a lot of time there.

I know Dr. Seeber was at the Haughton barn like a resident   LOL   I like your perspectives, ty!

I am going to submit another perspective that isnt very popular.

SBSW--lightly raced, most of his races were against Ontario Gold Series horses

He made a meaningless speed mark at Lexington(46.4 i believe), the same day Art Official raced in 46.4, (Lexington "seeded" them in separate divisions preventing the rematch),other than that, he was protected and rested between races, skipped many of the big 3yo races in the US, and unlike Niatross, who only two losses(37 wins out of 39 races)had legit excuses(fever at Saratoga and then broke stride in the M Pace elim), SBSW came to the Big M Pace completely rested and healthy, brought his "A " game--and was defeated. I think he only raced 19 times in his entire career. His best race was his final race--at Yonkers in the rain where he defeated Shadow Play by a nose in a memorable stretch battle. He showed some real guts in that race even though he raced on the better part of the track with all the rain. MacGrath then scratched him out of Dover, rumor has it because he didnt want another loss pinned on his record. He was extremely lightly raced to have an undefeated career, that failed and it wasnt MacDonnell's fault, or YGs drive on Bullville Powerful that beat him. He just wasnt an all time great. I am sorry that this will upset many people here.

These are facts.

[JIDGE]

I am going to submit another perspective that isnt very popular.

SBSW--lightly raced, most of his races were against Ontario Gold Series horses

He made a meaningless speed mark at Lexington(46.4 i believe), the same day Art Official raced in 46.4, (Lexington "seeded" them in separate divisions preventing the rematch),other than that, he was protected and rested between races, skipped many of the big 3yo races in the US, and unlike Niatross, who only two losses(37 wins out of 39 races)had legit excuses(fever at Saratoga and then broke stride in the M Pace elim), SBSW came to the Big M Pace completely rested and healthy, brought his "A " game--and was defeated. I think he only raced 19 times in his entire career. His best race was his final race--at Yonkers in the rain where he defeated Shadow Play by a nose in a memorable stretch battle. He showed some real guts in that race even though he raced on the better part of the track with all the rain. MacGrath then scratched him out of Dover, rumor has it because he didnt want another loss pinned on his record. He was extremely lightly raced to have an undefeated career, that failed and it wasnt MacDonnell's fault, or YGs drive on Bullville Powerful that beat him. He just wasnt an all time great. I am sorry that this will upset many people here.

These are facts.

True he was definitely a pampered three year old. But what a sire. When the sport was in need of an outcross pacing sire SBSW single handedly brought back the Volomite line to prominence.