And NOW??

[winky]

At the end of Bret Hanover's career Frank Ervin shipped to California

and finished 3rd...


These are living things, whether humans or animals...not machines.

Novak Djokovic , arguably the greatest tennis player of all times

lost to a 19 year old upstart this year at Wimbledon in the finals.

Confederate raced off the pace in that NA and as we know

that presents problems as the leader usually gets a jump

and the horse is at the mercy of the pace.

As far as Confed goes....If I am a businessman heres the

math on the Breeding end...I am guessing on the stud Fee

but lets call it $10k?


150  Annual Breedings x $10k    $1.5 Million Gross

10 years x $1.5 Million if all goes OK    $15,000,000

Now , we do know if the first crop hits..the fees go up..

and subsequently vice versa....

We cannot forecast the future..

So far  $1.558 Million earnings to date

(7) starts as a 2 yr old

(10) starts as a 3 year old

Now that...is how to race a horse..

When I see these jokers start a 2 year old  more than 9 starts

I cringe.

They managed this horse very well.

The public would like to see 20 starts as a 2 year old...

and then race every possible race as a 3 year old ...

There are KEY "GRADE 1"   races @ 2 are .....#1   

THE METRO

#2  The Breeders Crown


The Key races for 3 year olds are #1

   #1   THE NORTH AMERICA CUP   "Grade 1"     

  #2    Meadowlands Pace              "Grade 1"             


 #3  The Breeders Crown               "Grade 1"             


# 4   The Jug                                 Grade 2



Direct all nasty remarks and complaints to our secretary:


Helen Hunt                                 
                                 

[Stan durbread]

At the end of Bret Hanover's career Frank Ervin shipped to California

and finished 3rd...


These are living things, whether humans or animals...not machines.

Novak Djokovic , arguably the greatest tennis player of all times

lost to a 19 year old upstart this year at Wimbledon in the finals.

Confederate raced off the pace in that NA and as we know

that presents problems as the leader usually gets a jump

and the horse is at the mercy of the pace.

As far as Confed goes....If I am a businessman heres the

math on the Breeding end...I am guessing on the stud Fee

but lets call it $10k?


150  Annual Breedings x $10k    $1.5 Million Gross

10 years x $1.5 Million if all goes OK    $15,000,000

Now , we do know if the first crop hits..the fees go up..

and subsequently vice versa....

We cannot forecast the future..

So far  $1.558 Million earnings to date

(7) starts as a 2 yr old

(10) starts as a 3 year old

Now that...is how to race a horse..

When I see these jokers start a 2 year old  more than 9 starts

I cringe.

They managed this horse very well.

The public would like to see 20 starts as a 2 year old...

and then race every possible race as a 3 year old ...

There are KEY "GRADE 1"   races @ 2 are .....#1   

THE METRO

#2  The Breeders Crown


The Key races for 3 year olds are #1

   #1   THE NORTH AMERICA CUP   "Grade 1"     

  #2    Meadowlands Pace              "Grade 1"             


 #3  The Breeders Crown               "Grade 1"             


# 4   The Jug                                 Grade 2



Direct all nasty remarks and complaints to our secretary:


Helen Hunt                                 
                               

Well said but you are way low on stud fee. It will be 25-30k first year

[Fuguzzi]

I am in your ballpark Stan. I believe he will generate around 40 - 50 million for Diamoncreek during his breeding career and i have a gut feeling he will be very solid as a sire. Pelling, notwithstanding, I believe the horse is "clean".

[MIKE CAMPBELL]

A couple responses to my friends / foes......

To Mike Campbell - your aggressive rambling tone does not sound like that of a horseman.If you truly are so be it Your story about Brett Pelling, who btw is the greatest trainer of pacers I have ever lived to see, is either untrue or irrelevant. Compared to Brett, I was a nobody, but I played the claiming game pretty heavy and If you or I were in a claiming war, I would not want you coming up to me either to tell me something about the same horse, unless you were Stanley Dancer. If you haven't seen Confederate's rare gift of multiple electric gears last 3/16ths, then
you are very biased or, I am sorry, don't really know what you are looking at. The horse has to be gifted exceptionally to rattle off last halfs sub 54 and last quarters sub 26 with virtual ease and open up daylight quickly. When he looks horses in the eye, they melt. Btw, your tone reminds me of Sen. Blutarsky.

Firstly, you're correct about one thing, you're a nobody. Secondly, I also claimed off of Ray Remmen and Jim Doherty and BOTH came up to me and told me if I had any questions about the horses I just claimed to just ask. Cream always rises to the top. You're nothing but coffee grinds.

[Fuguzzi]

That kind of vitriole does not deserve a response. but     Yes, Ray Remmen was a complete horseman and a gentleman. Jimmy Doherty, i have mixed reviews. Nothing further worth responding too. I am glad for you that you were a top horseman and I am a nobody, but I stand by my incredulity if you can say, as a horseman, you look at Confederate and "don't see it". Kinda ironic you call me Coffee Grinds. my first employer and mentor was the man listed as trainer for George Sholty when they raced Coffee Break.

[JIDGE]

A couple responses to my friends / foes......

To Mike Campbell - your aggressive rambling tone does not sound like that of a horseman.If you truly are so be it Your story about Brett Pelling, who btw is the greatest trainer of pacers I have ever lived to see, is either untrue or irrelevant. Compared to Brett, I was a nobody, but I played the claiming game pretty heavy and If you or I were in a claiming war, I would not want you coming up to me either to tell me something about the same horse, unless you were Stanley Dancer. If you haven't seen Confederate's rare gift of multiple electric gears last 3/16ths, then you are very biased or, I am sorry, don't really know what you are looking at. The horse has to be gifted exceptionally to rattle off last halfs sub 54 and last quarters sub 26 with virtual ease and open up daylight quickly. When he looks horses in the eye, they melt. Btw, your tone reminds me of Sen. Blutarsky.

To Brown jug - I respect your opinion and like what you post, but the flaw in saying that things like being boxed, shuffled, blind switched, in a bad flow etc, don't matter when assessing a horse's defeat are excuses, is that, as you know very well, in harness racing the best horse so often can get beat for just those reasons. These are not excuses, they are important factors. That's why they are printed in the program for our horses, unlike T-breds. In mamny ways, I believe Confederates DEFEAT in the NA Cup was one of his best performances. He tried to chase down a very good rival from a nearly impossible spot and paced tyhe last quarter a FULL SECOND FASTER than the winner. That almost never happens, We are not talking about 30 years ago and some horse pacing 29 vs a horse on the lead slowing down to 30. This was 26 Confederate vs 27 IMS. Nothing wrong with that defeat and since then he is unbeaten as you know.

Fug --

Obviously I agree with you in regard to Confederate -- he's one of a kind. As far as Mike Campbell -- no idea if he's legit. I was also in the claiming game, perhaps not as heavy as you.  I claimed a mare I thought I could improve 2 seconds. Guy had a six horse barn and a 5% win percentage.  I claimed her off two second place finishes. The night I claimed her for $5,000 she finished second again.  I made a couple of slight changes Murphy blind, minnie bit, etc. Raced her -- she finished last.  Dropped her in again -- now it's 2 weeks after my claim -- I'm in the paddock, guy I claimed her off of walks over to me and says "can I look at her feet?"  I was a little hesitant but I said "sure" -- he picks up her feet, turns to me and says -- her heels start to contract between races -- I always put a mushroom shoe on her -- and switch to a full swedge just for the race. I thanked him. She finished last again. Sure enough ever so slightly I could see where her heels were contracting. Day after the race I put a pair of mushroom shoes on her -- then switched to a full swedge a week later to race. She won three in a row for me before she got claimed. Me and the guy became good friends. I always say -- Money before Ego.

[MIKE CAMPBELL]

That kind of vitriole does not deserve a response. but     Yes, Ray Remmen was a complete horseman and a gentleman. Jimmy Doherty, i have mixed reviews. Nothing further worth responding too. I am glad for you that you were a top horseman and I am a nobody, but I stand by my incredulity if you can say, as a horseman, you look at Confederate and "don't see it". Kinda ironic you call me Coffee Grinds. my first employer and mentor was the man listed as trainer for George Sholty when they raced Coffee Break.

You are apparently not a horse lover. You see, when a horse lover has a horse claimed or sells one, his love for the horse outweighs the ego you possess. I currently have a horse that is allergic to soy. She will break out in hives in 20 minutes after eating. I certainly would tell the next owner/trainer about this. Apparently, you wouldn't which doesn't surprise me. I have another horse who gets the thumps if he eats too much alfalfa. Once again, I would make sure the new trainer knows about this. You on the other hand would rather see the horse suffer.

[White Rabbit]

I am in your ballpark Stan. I believe he will generate around 40 - 50 million for Diamoncreek during his breeding career and i have a gut feeling he will be very solid as a sire. Pelling, notwithstanding, I believe the horse is "clean".

Hold on you go on here and condemn BP but say Confedatross raced clean . Where do you get his stud fee , no shot they get 25 for him or that he make 50 million as a stud , honestly where do you come up with this .

[Fuguzzi]

Fug --

Obviously I agree with you in regard to Confederate -- he's one of a kind. As far as Mike Campbell -- no idea if he's legit. I was also in the claiming game, perhaps not as heavy as you.  I claimed a mare I thought I could improve 2 seconds. Guy had a six horse barn and a 5% win percentage.  I claimed her off two second place finishes. The night I claimed her for $5,000 she finished second again.  I made a couple of slight changes Murphy blind, minnie bit, etc. Raced her -- she finished last.  Dropped her in again -- now it's 2 weeks after my claim -- I'm in the paddock, guy I claimed her off of walks over to me and says "can I look at her feet?"  I was a little hesitant but I said "sure" -- he picks up her feet, turns to me and says -- her heels start to contract between races -- I always put a mushroom shoe on her -- and switch to a full swedge just for the race. I thanked him. She finished last again. Sure enough ever so slightly I could see where her heels were contracting. Day after the race I put a pair of mushroom shoes on her -- then switched to a full swedge a week later to race. She won three in a row for me before she got claimed. Me and the guy became good friends. I always say -- Money before Ego.

Good story and that kind of cooperation goes happen frequently. I have been warned twice not to claim horses ny fellow trainers "because they could not live at the track" Dan Wilsey once helped me with a "bad claim" I made from a Saratoga trainer after he lost the drive since I claimed him. Was just trying to say i dont expect that persona from a Brett Pelling

[Fuguzzi]

Hold on you go on here and condemn BP but say Confedatross raced clean . Where do you get his stud fee , no shot they get 25 for him or that he make 50 million as a stud , honestly where do you come up with this .

You are correct. I have condemned Prett Pelling on here, BUT I was talking about the Brett Pelling of old, before he was deported. As far as his personality and ego. That most likely has not changed. But, I have some sources in the game still and from my observation, I do believe upon return and being allowed to race, his horses are "essentially clean" now. of, course I may be wrong.

[Fuguzzi]

Hold on you go on here and condemn BP but say Confedatross raced clean . Where do you get his stud fee , no shot they get 25 for him or that he make 50 million as a stud , honestly where do you come up with this .

3.75 million a year for 12 - 15 productive years - $50 M neighborhood 

[wizardofoz]

“I’m getting chills driving him. He’s awesome,” Tetrick said. "I just kind of played it by feel and we got it done. He’s done everything right, and everybody says, ‘He can’t go on the lead,’ but he can go on the lead. I just like him chasing better.”.......chasing is a formula for losing Timmy! Go break the word record with him before retirement! 

[remington]

Pelling came back in the game with something new and indictable. Once a crook always a crook. If it looks like a skunk smells like a skunk it's a skunk.

[Stan durbread]

Pelling came back in the game with something new and indictable. Once a crook always a crook. If it looks like a skunk smells like a skunk it's a skunk.

I’m guessing he is only using it on a few horses. He has a lot of average horses and a few top ones

[Fuguzzi]

Pelling came back in the game with something new and indictable. Once a crook always a crook. If it looks like a skunk smells like a skunk it's a skunk.

May be right. Hope not. His old man was a skunk. Brian pelling in the 80 pre - internet, would fax me and other trainers programs and results of his claimers racing in Illionois. He would circle his horse, as if we couldn't read his name and put a price like "22k cash/sound and game horse". kinda like a used car sign, hand written at the top of the program.... Only problem, if you looked at the program, the horse was racing in 15 claimers. Talk about an arrogant A - hole.