The day rate matters but with Erv and others it's all the creative accounting that goes into those high bills. Tony A if he learned anything after going on his own was duplicating that same method. If you have some good stake horses or GC earners those bills get padded further. But at that point one may not matter its that nw 3 5k a month everything out the door because a owner of many will have more of those than being lucky to have a top horse in the stable.