Let’s talk about scumbag owners who employ the drugging animal abusing trainers

[Fuguzzi]

Really have nooooo idea what you are talking about

[Gaagoots]

Really have nooooo idea what you are talking about

He was called by his initials not his name.

[Gaagoots]

What about that fat black pimp from Port Jervis New York (so called horse owner) that used to bring that little blonde to suck off the state vet to find out what races they were blood/gas testing!

I let them ship with me once ,  he wanted to have her suck my dick for payment!  I thought to myself …she sucked that fucking shine’s cheese dick I’m not gonna let her near me!

Fuguzzi he hung around the farms in the tri state area.

[Fuguzzi]

never encountered or heard of him

[seen2much]

I am 100% aware of how racing operated in those days. People who raced clean, no matter what there level of skill or how sharp they were, batted .200 to maybe .250.
 Most raced in condition races and when their stead got down to NW $2,000 L5, they drew well and jogged. Then another 6-8 weeks of 4th and 5th place checks before they go down in class top win or be second. No matter how talented a horse person you are , you are a .200 trainer in these circumstances.
 You could drop in a claimer. Not wanting to lose him but looking to be more aggressive in his placement, you tag him for $10K more than he is worth. No takers.  Nobody makes a dime but, you now fit NW of $2K again.  If you tagged him at the value he has been performing at, there were 10 sharks, swimming the blood stained waters of the claiming box. Either way you go bust if you continue to play.  One of those creeps would draw the lucky pill and in 2 weeks with some EPO, soda and breathing meds, he wins and the driver takes almost a 1/2 mile to pull him up. Double jumps the next start and the classy 10yr. old shaves 2 seconds off his lifetime mark.
Now, the former trainer looks to be incompetent or at the least, a guy that time has passed by. The owner feels like a complete schmuck and finds a new way to get his action fix.
 This shit went on right until the VLT laws passed. Everyone knew harness racing had less integrity than, wrestling and roller derby. Hell, Boxing had more going for it. That was until the MMA gave the pugilistic fan an alternative. When a politician in NY was on the outs, his peers and pundits would "you will be seeing him on a bench at Yonkers Trots, next.
To give any of these low life gutless creeps any remembrance other than what they excelled at
 cheating, is a great travesty of fairness to the straight guys.

This is well said & on point.

[seen2much]

I WILL PROBABLY GET CRUCIFIED FOR SAYING THIS BUT HERE GOES. I CURRENTLY OWN 4 HORSES-- 2 IN PA, 1 IN NEW JERSEY AND 1 IN INDIANA. KIRBYS QUESTION IS A VERY VALID ONE THAT NEEDS TO BE ANSWERED HONESTLY. I DO NOT CONSIDER MYSELF A CHEATING OWNER BECAUSE I'VE ALWAYS TRIED TO DO SHIT THE RIGHT WAY AS I WAS RAISED THAT WAY. I WAS A TEENAGE FAN AND THEN ONE OF MY BEST FRIENDS FROM COLLEGE DRAGGED ME INTO A PARTNERSHIP AND I FELL IN LOVE WITH OWNING SINCE 1989. I'VE SEEN IT ALL PRETTY MUCH. BUT TO ANSWER KIRBYS QUESTION, I WAS WITH THE SAME TRAINER WHO FOR THE MOST PART WAS A STRAIGHT SHOOTER BUT I GOT TIRED OF GETTING MY ASS KICKED BY THE OTHER JUICE TRAINERS EVERY WEEK. I HAD TO DO SOMETHING AND I HAD TWO CHOICES. EITHER GET OUT OF THE BUSINESS COMPLETLY WHICH IS WHAT MY PARTNER DID OR STILL OWN AND HIRE ONE OF THE MANY CHEATING JUICE TRAINERS AT EACH TRACK SO I COULD BE ON THE SAME PLAYING FIELD WITH THEM. I WAS LOSING MY ASS AND WOULD OF GONE BROKE SO I CHOOSE THE LATTER. IN MY OPINION, ITS THE TRAINERS WHO START OUT AS THE CHEATS (DRUGS, ABUSE, ELECTROCUTION, ETC) AND I GUESS WE OWNERS BECOME CHEATS AS WELL BECAUSE OF WHAT WE HAVE TO DO TO SURVIVE IN THE BUSINESS. I'LL APOLOGIZE RIGHT NOW TO ALL OF MY FRIENDS IN THIS BUSINESS BUT WE OWNERS HAVE TO TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR ENABLING THE CHEATING TRAINERS TO THRIVE. I'M PRETTY SURE WITHOUT US, THEY COULDNT CHEAT AT THE LEVEL THEY DO AND WIN RACES LEFT AND RIGHT LIKE THE TOP TRAINERS AT EVERY TRACK DO. I'M A SMALL TIME GUY BUT I'M BEING HONEST, I HAD TO DO WHAT I HAD TO DO.

No one can wait forever for the authorities to what needs to be done. I don't judge someone doing what is necessary to survive & protect their investment.

[seen2much]

You do not deserve to be crucified. I was involved with a high percentage trainer and i knew intuitively his percentage was the kind that suggests he was "using something" To this day, i have no idea what it was or what he was "doing". Once, a PJ even called me into his office and started yelling about how he gets so many complaints from the public about this guy and kept asking what the hell he is using/doing. I told him, sorry, i have no idea. intuitively, I knew something was wrong, but yeah it's hard to give up winning. I can live with myself.

Now if I knew of abuse akin to the "Allard Death Camp"   That's a whole different story. I ran into that situation ponce in my life and did the right thing.

It's either do something or you were run out of the business. That is the effect the big cheaters have on everyone. I can't judge someone trying to survive.

[Fuguzzi]

Unfortunately, a lot of decent, hard working people who tried their best, were shoved to the sidelines or right out of the business, almost overnight.

[Generation XYZ]

Unfortunately, a lot of decent, hard working people who tried their best, were shoved to the sidelines or right out of the business, almost overnight.

Too many! and all actually had the best interest of the horse at the core of their barns.  The only ones left are the cheats and those that had enough money to hang on as long as they can. The cheats have to go. This is industries cheats are at pandemic proportions.

[Fuguzzi]

Half if not more. There are people training again at YR that I thought 5/10/12 years ago would have been gone for good.

[ferdinand the bull]

Half if not more. There are people training again at YR that I thought 5/10/12 years ago would have been gone for good.

It's obvious yet the authorities are oblivious
How hard can it be to watch a particular barn on a race day and see if forms change or not and for crying out loud do out of competition for epogen

[Balmoral buzz]

It's obvious yet the authorities are oblivious
How hard can it be to watch a particular barn on a race day and see if forms change or not and for crying out loud do out of competition for epogen

My Hoosier trainer friend said most of the EPO guys are giving it seven days out mostly on sundays when nobody is driving to a farm to do out of competition testing. He said unless they actually see them administer the shot, it’s completely pointless because the horse naturally has epo in their system and there is no catching them. Only way to level the field and this will never happen is to have one huge facility with cameras like Hoosier and have 100 barns and make it a rule that you MUST stable at the track. If not go and race someplace else.

[White Rabbit]

They’re way past using EPO. There are blood builders now that are undetectable after 12 hrs.

[Mailbox Money]

Little outfits have no choice.The options are very simple,PRODUCE CASH or REDUCE NUMBERS AND COSTS!

[Stan durbread]

You want to hear about how bad the owners are. About 10 years ago I got sent a homebred from a “top owner” because his top trainers didn’t want him. Worked my ass off to get him to the races. Won his first lifetime start in SS. Went home with Josh Marks that day. The same owner is now saying he didn’t know Beaton was like that. That is the biggest problem with the industry they are afraid to throw out the biggest scumbags. BTW it was over a year before he won another race