I'm trying to understand

[Fuguzzi]

I just responded to you in another thread, buddy

[White Rabbit]

Well, every time I talk about Tony Morgan, I hear how he went around with his "little black bag" helping horses he was going to drive. And that he was very good at it. I can't speak to that. No first hand knowledge of Chicago racing. Just using an example.

Do I know for a fact that, in my day, certain big time catch drivers helped trainers "take off"? Absolutely. A driver need not be present that very afternoon, to still be a conduit for drugs into a trainer's barn. I am not speaking of the cream of the cheaters, some of which have "made" driver's careers. I am talking about the dozens of lesser trainers who suddenly became Stanley Dancer, at least statistically when they took up with certain drivers. And just how do we separate "Team Allard" Another example.

I already mentioned Mike LaChance as one who helped many trainers back in the day and certainly one HOFer will all know and love.

Yes you are correct, the drivers need not be the racing police, but at the same time should they be "receivers of stolen goods"?

Same stories went around about Timmy T when arrived in Delaware, that doesn’t make it true. Are you saying you hand first knowledge of Mike L treating or helping trainers treat horses?
If so you should have strapped a set on and spoke up then maybe the business would have went in a different direction

[Fuguzzi]

I didn't know i had the power to alter the course of harness racing.

You want another name? ok What about Rejean and all of his satellite barns? Names like Sarama, McCardle, Tremblay. Notice how when YR tossed him and he lost his numerous lawsuits vs Rooney and galterio, as soon as he vanished, they did too.

[White Rabbit]

If you had knowledge of ML then you had the power and chose to do nothing. Now with nothing to lose you want drivers to be held accountable for something a trainer may or may not be doing. You had the opportunity to possibly make a difference and sat on your hands.
The smart ass reply ,I didn’t know I had the power to alter. That’s a bitch ass statement from someone who bitched up & now you want everyone else to

[Fuguzzi]

No, wasn't meant to be that way. put aside the fact that most of your posts are argumentative, especially with me,it was my way of saying that here i am an 18 year old, groom/wanna be, at the time, who just arrived on the NY Metro scene and yes I saw things, heard things, was told things and surmised things. Some were true, others likely not. So who on the biggest circuit in racing was going to listen to me. Did I wonder how Larry Summer, somebody no one heard of a year or two before became leading trainer overnight with LaChance driving a majority of his horses? Sure, But who knows, maybe Mike did well because of Larry, maybe Larry did well because of Mike.

But I did keep my ear to the ground and tried to observe and absorb everything. And this may surprise you, I bet in those days, A LOT!
That's how I amassed the money to buy into some very good horses privately and anonymously to help get myself "going". For example, the two horses I had an interest in with 2 of carmine's owners as I have said in the past

Yes, I have seen and heard and been told and surmised things. Some of them involved personal relationships too. Not expanding on them further.

[rainman2]

Take Bongiorno and Simon Allard, even the Beckwith kid , where would their careers be if they didn't start out driving turbo charged horses?

Brett Beckwith driving “ turbo-charged” horses?  REALLY?  Names of the horses so we can verify this information. If you are talking about the Melissa Beckwith barn, then she should be racing at Yonkers instead of Saratoga. FTI, Brett doesn’t even drive some of his mom’s horses as he has chose off on many occasions.

[White Rabbit]

No, wasn't meant to be that way. put aside the fact that most of your posts are argumentative, especially with me,it was my way of saying that here i am an 18 year old, groom/wanna be, at the time, who just arrived on the NY Metro scene and yes I saw things, heard things, was told things and surmised things. Some were true, others likely not. So who on the biggest circuit in racing was going to listen to me. Did I wonder how Larry Summer, somebody no one heard of a year or two before became leading trainer overnight with LaChance driving a majority of his horses? Sure, But who knows, maybe Mike did well because of Larry, maybe Larry did well because of Mike.

But I did keep my ear to the ground and tried to observe and absorb everything. And this may surprise you, I bet in those days, A LOT!
That's how I amassed the money to buy into some very good horses privately and anonymously to help get myself "going". For example, the two horses I had an interest in with 2 of carmine's owners as I have said in the past

Yes, I have seen and heard and been told and surmised things. Some of them involved personal relationships too. Not expanding on them further.

So let’s get this straight, you saw, witnessed wrong doing, cheating & kept your head. Went on made money in the business, kept your head down. Now you want the people making a living supporting families to fall on the sword that you used to make a profit.’
You can call me argumentative, I just call out the Bullshit

[White Rabbit]

Don’t ask people to do what you didn’t have the courage to do.

[Fuguzzi]

Nothing to do with Brett now, but 10/12 years ago when Mark and Melissa, controlled Saratoga and their main owner was Richie LaCava, a former YR/RR trainer, Marohn stooge, addicted gambler and bookmaking associate ( there is NY case law ) you can easily look up, THAT WAS A JOKE.  Richie lacava - God help us ......And i knew the whole Beckwith clan growing up in NE. Loved Mel and Bert was a great talent, soft spoken and a gentleman. Brett is a great young driver. I believe he will be a leading driver at a major track eventually.


Got that off my chest   

[Fuguzzi]

Not at all  My only original point is that the drivers are not innocent bystanders in this whole affair. I dont want anyone to call out anyone. That rat shit is for losers.  Simply saying drivers who get rich off cheats, should suffer a greater penalty than the loss of a 5% check here and there. Why can't you get on board with that. here i will call myself out and satisfy all - YES! I TUBED HORSES AND IT FUCKING HELPED. It was adapt or die.


When for example, I see Rene Allard go to prison and deservedly so and see Simon go on his merry way, that pisses me off. Why doesn't it offend you too, buddy. i know deep down you love the game like i do.

[LAW AND ORDER]

So let’s get this straight, you saw, witnessed wrong doing, cheating & kept your head. Went on made money in the business, kept your head down. Now you want the people making a living supporting families to fall on the sword that you used to make a profit.’
You can call me argumentative, I just call out the Bullshit

SO YOU DONT THINK A PERSON CAN MATURE AND DEVELOP A GUILTY CONSCIENCE? WELL, MY FRIEND, I DIDNT KNOW THAT YOU ARE PERFECT. I BENEFITTED FROM CHEATING BUT IT DOESNT MEAN THAT I WANT IT TO CONTINUE. HELL, EVERYTHING IN THE DARK COMES TO LIGHT SOONER OR LATER. LIGHTEN UP MY MAN. WE ALL HAVE SKELETONS.

[Fuguzzi]

Well said - his sanctimony was definitely showing.

[Stan durbread]

It is near impossible to connect the drivers to the doping. Yes Semen Allard does help out the trainers that stabled at his farm. But for the most part the drivers can claim plausible deniability

[White Rabbit]

SO YOU DONT THINK A PERSON CAN MATURE AND DEVELOP A GUILTY CONSCIENCE? WELL, MY FRIEND, I DIDNT KNOW THAT YOU ARE PERFECT. I BENEFITTED FROM CHEATING BUT IT DOESNT MEAN THAT I WANT IT TO CONTINUE. HELL, EVERYTHING IN THE DARK COMES TO LIGHT SOONER OR LATER. LIGHTEN UP MY MAN. WE ALL HAVE SKELETONS.

General the people who see the light or want to be the savior of the business do so because their methods don’t pay profits anymore and want to go after the ones who’s methods they can’t beat. Sore losers angry old guy so on.
That’s were the so-called maturity comes from , lack of profit or ability to compete.
And yes I do realize there’s a lot  of super trainers and miracles happening in this business everywhere on a nightly bases . But trying to hold drivers accountable because SA supposedly got to by is BS. I say that because only SA knows what he knows , good or bad. Only he knows and he’s not telling.

[White Rabbit]

It is near impossible to connect the drivers to the doping. Yes Semen Allard does help out the trainers that stabled at his farm. But for the most part the drivers can claim plausible deniability

You drivers like it’s a cancer going on. SA was probably the only driver who maybe knew what was going on with RA horses.