Gary Messenger Trainer Monticello

[Fuguzzi]

Then you will love this. As I said before, Clint sucked. yeah, Niatross and Call for Rain. I get it. And about 1200 babies that went nowhere. Plus, he was nasty as all get out with a hyper inflated ego. I knew a girl from that barn in my early, early days. had a bit of info into what was going on. Niatross was a supernatural that virtually anybody would have done well with. I do not consider Clint, Billy and Marie major connections. And Clint caved to LPG and Finder pressure and raced Niatross at Saratoga knowing he was sick. When asked he sheepishly said "Yeah, he mighta had a touch of the flu" He, Guida and Finder tried to rob Elsie Berger out of as much syndication money as they could. I'm glad Clint went bust and Finder ended up at 52nd st. OTB looking for hand outs from Rene's crew.

I stand firmly behind what i said.

Btw the stupidest post ever was the guy who told me Herve Filion was overrated.

[MIKE CAMPBELL]

Take away what Niatross and Call For Rain earned and he is still ahead of Messenger in earnings. I'm not even counting the fact that on the NYSS circuit, he had others such as Eddie Hart down as trainer or else his stats would even be greater.

[Fuguzzi]

Nothing wrong with Eddie Hart as a trainer/horseman. Mike, hard to get you sometimes, Often we are on the same page/simlar experiences and memories sometimes not.

As an owner, if i had a barn full of regular raceway stock, I would rather have the trainer Gary Messenger has become in charge of  them WITH a catch driver, than Clint Galbraith. Pre 1980 and post 85, Clint was essentially a sire stakes guy that nobody really paid attention to. Shave em and blister em. That was Clint. Excellent source of young horses end of the season. Privately, Harrisburg, Meadowlands winter sale. Lotsa room for improvement. Remove some of the equipment, cool the legs down and put a human being on them to drive. That's just me.. I always respect you and your info

[tumbleweed]

Ed Hart is another class act that originated from that stable. He is also a good honest horseman.

[MIKE CAMPBELL]

Nothing wrong with Eddie Hart as a trainer/horseman. Mike, hard to get you sometimes, Often we are on the same page/simlar experiences and memories sometimes not.

As an owner, if i had a barn full of regular raceway stock, I would rather have the trainer Gary Messenger has become in charge of  them WITH a catch driver, than Clint Galbraith. Pre 1980 and post 85, Clint was essentially a sire stakes guy that nobody really paid attention to. Shave em and blister em. That was Clint. Excellent source of young horses end of the season. Privately, Harrisburg, Meadowlands winter sale. Lotsa room for improvement. Remove some of the equipment, cool the legs down and put a human being on them to drive. That's just me.. I always respect you and your info

Clint drove and trained horses that earned over 24 million. He is in the HOF. I am wasting my bandwith comparing him to a career Monticello trainer that never won a big race in his career. Please, call 1-800-I-Need-Help because you are embarrassing yourself. PS..I never said Messenger wasn't a good trainer/driver but you are way off base.

[Fuguzzi]

All good. And i am saying that having groomed under Clint, I think it possible Messenger grew to be as good a trainer as him. Isn't it possible, Gary may have done well with even a few of the 1200 babies Clint went basically nowhere with. Who knows what a guy could do if he had the opportunities others have had. You were around in my day, you must have always heard the buzz that guys felt Clint was "easy to improve off of". i am not the least bit embarrassed to say that Clint was just a slightly above average NYSS guy who got extraordinarily lucky when he hit a lottery ticket named Niatross, And yes, insult me all you like, but I would sooner give a barn full of meat and potato overnight race way stock to a guy like Gary Messenger and have catch drivers than to Clint and have him train and drive. Doesn't mean I would give a top colt or filly to Messenger either.  I recognize his limitations.

I am glad Clint got a taste of what he had coming to him.

[MIKE CAMPBELL]

All good. And i am saying that having groomed under Clint, I think it possible Messenger grew to be as good a trainer as him. Isn't it possible, Gary may have done well with even a few of the 1200 babies Clint went basically nowhere with. Who knows what a guy could do if he had the opportunities others have had. You were around in my day, you must have always heard the buzz that guys felt Clint was "easy to improve off of". i am not the least bit embarrassed to say that Clint was just a slightly above average NYSS guy who got extraordinarily lucky when he hit a lottery ticket named Niatross, And yes, insult me all you like, but I would sooner give a barn full of meat and potato overnight race way stock to a guy like Gary Messenger and have catch drivers than to Clint and have him train and drive. Doesn't mean I would give a top colt or filly to Messenger either.  I recognize his limitations.

I am glad Clint got a taste of what he had coming to him.

Galbraith groomed for one of the greats, Hall Of Famer Clint Hodgins. You're nuts.

[Fuguzzi]

Jimmy Marohn groomed a Cane Pace winner for Haughton.  What does this prove?  Now if u wanna tell me how Lucien came out under Hodgins. That's different. Lucien light years past Clint.

[remington]

Clint had steady income coming in from his wife's father for many years. That's what made him plus great luck with two great horses. We will never know how good of a horseman he was with that kind of backing. There are some trainers right now in the business in the same situation as Clint with unlimited backing.

[MIKE CAMPBELL]

Jimmy Marohn groomed a Cane Pace winner for Haughton.  What does this prove?  Now if u wanna tell me how Lucien came out under Hodgins. That's different. Lucien light years past Clint.

You're a fucking asshole. You're the one who brought up the fact that Messenger groomed for Clint but when I bring up the fact that Galbraith groomed for Hodgins you say it doesn't mean anything. If you can't even remember what you post, maybe it's time to ask for help. Maybe you can hire a nurse's aid to help you.

[MIKE CAMPBELL]

Clint had steady income coming in from his wife's father for many years. That's what made him plus great luck with two great horses. We will never know how good of a horseman he was with that kind of backing. There are some trainers right now in the business in the same situation as Clint with unlimited backing.

I know you are retarded so I won't call you any names. Please, take away his 2 great horses and he still drove and trained horses that earned over 20 million dollars. Furthermore, retard, he did it before slot machine purses. Now go in the corner and drool like a retard.

[Fuguzzi]

I did mention that Gary M groomed for Clint, but my apologies, I meant it in a different context. I was pointing out the irony that a lesser accomplished trainer like Messenger may have in fact grown past his former "mentor" because he could win night in and night out with ordinary horses. Something Clint could not door. I brought up the Marohn/Haughton thing because you mentioned the Galbraith/Hodgins connection. I repeat, I would never give Clint a barn of ordinary raceway stock to race.

I assert again, maybe no one in the history of the sport had more babies pass thru his hands and accomplish the least with them.

Pre 1980 / post 85...Just an ordinary Sire Stakes guy who got beat when he came downstate. Way too heavy with paints and blisters and blowing up shoulders. Definitely not the best help. i knew many of them. Very heavy into the multiple training trips. Blew money you couldn't even imagine. Did not do right by Niatross when it mattered most. You can call people you disagree with all the names you can think of, but that wont dissuade me from my position. With all of this supposed talent why did he land and STAY on the crappy Buffalo/Batavia circuit? Never took a big shot as a trainer driver in NY Metro? Why. When he wasnt driving one of the big two, he was basically a toss. reputation for being easy to improve off of. All that talent, money and horses and he stayed with "Rodney" too long.mostly out of ego and died busted.
When you aren't being a jerk, I like what you have to say generally. You lived thru the same era, why won't you acknowledge there is truth to what i am saying, even partially. why call Remington an asshole? He contributes good stuff here. He and I have disagreements about Carmine but we dont insult each other. we debate in good faith.

[MIKE CAMPBELL]

I did mention that Gary M groomed for Clint, but my apologies, I meant it in a different context. I was pointing out the irony that a lesser accomplished trainer like Messenger may have in fact grown past his former "mentor" because he could win night in and night out with ordinary horses. Something Clint could not door. I brought up the Marohn/Haughton thing because you mentioned the Galbraith/Hodgins connection. I repeat, I would never give Clint a barn of ordinary raceway stock to race.

I assert again, maybe no one in the history of the sport had more babies pass thru his hands and accomplish the least with them.

Pre 1980 / post 85...Just an ordinary Sire Stakes guy who got beat when he came downstate. Way too heavy with paints and blisters and blowing up shoulders. Definitely not the best help. i knew many of them. Very heavy into the multiple training trips. Blew money you couldn't even imagine. Did not do right by Niatross when it mattered most. You can call people you disagree with all the names you can think of, but that wont dissuade me from my position. With all of this supposed talent why did he land and STAY on the crappy Buffalo/Batavia circuit? Never took a big shot as a trainer driver in NY Metro? Why. When he wasnt driving one of the big two, he was basically a toss. reputation for being easy to improve off of. All that talent, money and horses and he stayed with "Rodney" too long.mostly out of ego and died busted.
When you aren't being a jerk, I like what you have to say generally. You lived thru the same era, why won't you acknowledge there is truth to what i am saying, even partially. why call Remington an asshole? He contributes good stuff here. He and I have disagreements about Carmine but we dont insult each other. we debate in good faith.

I didn't call Remington an asshole. I called him a retard. I called you an asshole. I don't understand what you mean by Clint not doing right by Niatross when it mattered most. Niatross won 37 of 39 races. He won every major race he was entered in. I'd say he did just fine.

[Fuguzzi]

The worst kept secret in harness racing was that Niatross was sick when he raced in the Battle of Saratoga. In an interview, Haughton said Niatross didn't look right in the paddock and in the race he knew he was in distress when he looked him in the eye. In an interview that lasts a half hour with Jayne Kennedy, Galbraith acknowkledges the horse had fever and a high red blood cell count by saying "he mighta had a touch of the flu" He also concedes he raced the horse under pressure from LPG/FInder because of the syndication deal Don't you agree that as the trainer of the greatest standardbred ever at that point, he had the responsibility to do the right thing and not race the horse no matter what any owner, even Guida said and no matter how much money was involved? They are all very lucky that in collapsing over the rail, he survived miraculously unscathed. Imagine he shatters a bone and has to be euthanised? Then what? Thats what i meant by saying he didn't do right. All that money they were so worried about gone. Clint really looked like scum when he, Guida and Finder ( addicted gambler ) tried to swindle Elsie Berger out of all they could. I knew some details because my dad was close to the situation and the lawyer counseling Elsie Berger.   This may be a lot of Kentucky windage, but I have always been suspect of fantastic race horses who become dreadfully bad sires. He threw hundreds of rats and had that whole harem of Boni and Perretti at Dreamaire to choose from among others. First crop gave us Niafirst, Nihilator and Pershing Square. After that rats selling for 10,000 at the Old Glory sale. But that's another story.

Btw, I was racing at Saratoga that day  July 5  my brothers birthday  Split card and fireworks . i was racing at night, ironically same race. We had to wait hours to even get in the paddock. Guys were hooking up along the fence and in trailers.  It was kinda chaos  Took hours for Niatross to get out of there.


Yes, you called me the fucking asshole.. Remington - retard. Feel better we got that straightened out?

[MIKE CAMPBELL]

I heard a completely different story about that race in Saratoga. Believe whatever you want. I have no idea what really happened.