The Cream of the Crop

[MIKE CAMPBELL]

I have been sleeping with an accountant for almost 30 years. You are such an insulting prick, there is no point talking to you further. Net/net profit is a legitimate term. maybe someone else who understands the concept I am talking about will chime in and try to explain it to you. I am finished.

Well him and you are both fools. There are double and triple net leases, there is net profit or net income but there isn't net/net profit or net/net income.

[Fuguzzi]

"net/net" in business is defined as "the ultimate" bottom line profit ( if any ) after obvious and not so obvious, deductions and subtractions have been taken. This term is used in P/L and market capitalization. In laymen's terms think of it as what a company or in this case, an individual, REALLY makes.

Some call income after all revisions have been done and there can be no more.

[MIKE CAMPBELL]

"net/net" in business is defined as "the ultimate" bottom line profit ( if any ) after obvious and not so obvious, deductions and subtractions have been taken. This term is used in P/L and market capitalization. In laymen's terms think of it as what a company or in this case, an individual, REALLY makes.

Some call income after all revisions have been done and there can be no more.

Try again. I have all day.

[Fuguzzi]

Laymen's logic tells me that Burke is probably good for around 2 Million per year free and clear in his pocket after EVERYTHING. Maybe I am wrong and he is doing better, But who really cares. His consistency is truly remarkable.

It's not like he is gonna come on here and tell us.

If he can squeeze out more profit, good for him, but expenses continue to skyrocket and there are so many ways to bleed cash in this business.

[Fuguzzi]

Try again. I have all day.

Then do some research or spend time with your Burke purchase with the trapped or frozen epi or windpipe or whatever the fuck it is that is sidelining him.

[MIKE CAMPBELL]

Then do some research or spend time with your Burke purchase with the trapped or frozen epi or windpipe or whatever the fuck it is that is sidelining him.

Based on Burkes 25 million in purses won this year...5% trainer is 1,250.000....He has 200 horses in training. He must be paid at least $15 per day on each which over 1 year comes to 1.1 million. He owns at least 20% of the horses racing and earning purses. That comes to 5 million. You're a fool if you think he is only making 2 million per year.

[Fuguzzi]

Even if your figures are 100% accurate, that is pretax income and he still has 7.5 % SUI, SS, and Fica costs for his people and double that for himself. Insurance costs must be factored in too. Hard to imagine he can net out more that a couple million for himself t year's end and that would be doing very well.

[Stan durbread]

Based on Burkes 25 million in purses won this year...5% trainer is 1,250.000....He has 200 horses in training. He must be paid at least $15 per day on each which over 1 year comes to 1.1 million. He owns at least 20% of the horses racing and earning purses. That comes to 5 million. You're a fool if you think he is only making 2 million per year.

How do you know he owns 20% of the ones he is listed as owner on?  If the number is 20% that also drops the amount he is billing out. Usually has closer to 300 after Harrisburg last 7-8 years. We calculated out about what his expenses are a few years ago. Break even is about 13 million. That would be if he owned 100% of all horses. I would love to have just what he spends on travel each year.

[Fuguzzi]

(I went with Mike's numbers to avoid prolonging the argument, though we know they cant be 100% accurate).

I still feel that after everything Ron would be doing very well if kept 2 million free and clear for himself. I respect his unparalleled success and business model and if can do better than 30 - 40k free and clear for himself weekly, good for him.

Do you agree stan? Any other opinions about Burke's net/net?

[MIKE CAMPBELL]

How do you know he owns 20% of the ones he is listed as owner on?  If the number is 20% that also drops the amount he is billing out. Usually has closer to 300 after Harrisburg last 7-8 years. We calculated out about what his expenses are a few years ago. Break even is about 13 million. That would be if he owned 100% of all horses. I would love to have just what he spends on travel each year.

Logic tells me that if he wasn't raking it in, why would he continue with such a huge number of horses? Posting that he actually has 300 horses only adds to his bankroll. If break even is 13 million, he is doing quite well. Purses over 20 million 9 out of the last 10 years with 17 million in the pandemic year. I also believe he retained a percentage of Sweet Lou's breeding income.

[Fuguzzi]

you know why, Mike. Honestly, as you must have heard, there is such a thing as "drowning in success" or in this case excess. I am not saying he is drowning, don't take it that way. What I mean is how could he possibly scale back his operation at this point? He has so many people and things depending on him and he has obviously found a way to maintain the largest horse training operation ever with success, incredible consistency and we imagine good profitability, that it would be next to impossible for him to operate any other way and he doesn't seem to need to, so more power to him. I am truly in awe of the numbers he produces. he seems to maintain fluid calm in a business that features "choppy waters".

[Stan durbread]

(I went with Mike's numbers to avoid prolonging the argument, though we know they cant be 100% accurate).

I still feel that after everything Ron would be doing very well if kept 2 million free and clear for himself. I respect his unparalleled success and business model and if can do better than 30 - 40k free and clear for himself weekly, good for him.

Do you agree stan? Any other opinions about Burke's net/net?

I agree. Don’t forget he is still employing mom and dad. Mom does the books dad is an advisor. He also has 2 farms tha that require upkeep and taxes. Don’t know how many free stalls he has At Hoosier but only allowed 30 at The Meadows. So the rest he is paying stall rent on besides all the other expenses

[Stan durbread]

I personally wouldn’t want the headache involved with trying to find good help for 75.  Let alone 300. Ake and Sarah work 80+ hours a week. Burke I seem to see him show up at just about every track at some point.

[Fuguzzi]

I agree. Don’t forget he is still employing mom and dad. Mom does the books dad is an advisor. He also has 2 farms tha that require upkeep and taxes. Don’t know how many free stalls he has At Hoosier but only allowed 30 at The Meadows. So the rest he is paying stall rent on besides all the other expenses

I knew about the Mom. Maybe she does some "good home cooking". good points about stall rent. Something I never had to deal with, TG!

[theokodjak26]

I never saw so many people concerned how much money someone else is making. The bottom line to me is if Burke isn’t making a reasonable profit everyone else should just get out of the business. With his leverage he should be getting the best deals on everything. I would be surprised if he didn’t have a sharp tax accountant. He should be able to draw some of the best help assuming he is offering good pay and benefits, that most other trainers cannot. He may be offering some form of profit sharing to his best second trainers. I could go on and on but if he is a good businessman believe me no one needs to throw him a benefit.