Would you give your horse Lasix strictly as a preventive therapeutic ?

[Open bridle]

Going into the Next Generation races tonight at Scioto Virgil Morgan said this about his 2 yo pacer. “I have my own theories on Lasix,” said the trainer. “I think all horses have pulmonary hemorrhaging at one time or another and I personally think Lasix is a great thing. It is therapeutic and needed in our business.”  I know he gives it to his 2 yo's and up whether they need it or not. I am personally on the fence concerning this subject as an owner and would like any opinions from the horseman on this forum.

[Wild bull]

I'm not sure I agree with Virgil he's a great trainer has been around and relevant for long time but I'm just wondering does he use the lasix to help cover things up I know you can use more soda with lasix Among other things tony Morgan use to pull blood out of the vein and squirt it up their nose then have the groom go have them scoped

[samstar]

How many times have you had people tell you that they felt sick, thought there was something seriously wrong with them, went to the ER and were told that they were dehydrated and given IVs? 
We  give our horse up to 10ccs of lasix four hours before they race, withdraw their water, dehydrate them  and then expect them to give us maximum performance.  Something about that just doesn't make sense to me but what do I know?

[samstar]

These same horses that we give lasix to  were given $100 dollar jugs 24 hours ago and we suck the jug right out of them with lasix. go figure.

Obviously there are horses that bleed and need lasix but what if they don't bleed?

[White Rabbit]

The over looked question here is , what vet is giving Virgil a Lasix slip for a horse that’s not bleeding . The industry thinks we don’t need HISA.

[Dingus]

Silly me.  I thought you can’t give lasix to a 2 year old on race day.

[Open bridle]

The over looked question here is , what vet is giving Virgil a Lasix slip for a horse that’s not bleeding . The industry thinks we don’t need HISA.

The one in his hip pocket.

[SDST2009]

How many times have you had people tell you that they felt sick, thought there was something seriously wrong with them, went to the ER and were told that they were dehydrated and given IVs? 
We  give our horse up to 10ccs of lasix four hours before they race, withdraw their water, dehydrate them  and then expect them to give us maximum performance.  Something about that just doesn't make sense to me but what do I know?

I agree with this. A lot of trainers want them on lasix no matter what. It's not exactly easy on them. There definitely are horses that legitimately need it, but I doubt seriously all that are on it actually need it.

[MIKE CAMPBELL]

The main reason Lasix is used is to eliminate evidence. For example..Take 2 horses..1 on Lasix and 1 not. Give both a 10cc shot of Bute 24 hours before race. After 12 hours, the Bute leaves the blood and collects in the bladder for elimination. The horse given Lasix eliminates the Bute by urinating unnaturally gallons and gallons of liquid while the non lasix horse doesn't. After race when urine is tested on both these horses, the odds of Bute in the sample of Lasix horse is minute while the non lasix sample is questionable. That is why all trainers get their horse on the Lasix list. They can now give drugs closer than the non Lasix horse leading up to a race. Does it make a difference? Apparently many believe it does.

[SDST2009]

The main reason Lasix is used is to eliminate evidence. For example..Take 2 horses..1 on Lasix and 1 not. Give both a 10cc shot of Bute 24 hours before race. After 12 hours, the Bute leaves the blood and collects in the bladder for elimination. The horse given Lasix eliminates the Bute by urinating unnaturally gallons and gallons of liquid while the non lasix horse doesn't. After race when urine is tested on both these horses, the odds of Bute in the sample of Lasix horse is minute while the non lasix sample is questionable. That is why all trainers get their horse on the Lasix list. They can now give drugs closer than the non Lasix horse leading up to a race. Does it make a difference? Apparently many believe it does.

I guess the question is - if it clears the system through urine, is it effective as a therapeutic/performance enhancer?

I am legitimately asking; I don't know the processes of drugs in a horse's system.

[Equus Caballus]

The main reason Lasix is used is to eliminate evidence. For example..Take 2 horses..1 on Lasix and 1 not. Give both a 10cc shot of Bute 24 hours before race. After 12 hours, the Bute leaves the blood and collects in the bladder for elimination. The horse given Lasix eliminates the Bute by urinating unnaturally gallons and gallons of liquid while the non lasix horse doesn't. After race when urine is tested on both these horses, the odds of Bute in the sample of Lasix horse is minute while the non lasix sample is questionable. That is why all trainers get their horse on the Lasix list. They can now give drugs closer than the non Lasix horse leading up to a race. Does it make a difference? Apparently many believe it does.

Have you taken into consideration that a good amount of horses don’t end up pissing in the spit box ?

[Meadow Ford]

Have you taken into consideration that a good amount of horses don’t end up pissing in the spit box ?

Not to be a jerk,
 but what do you call a "good amount"?
5% to 10%?
10% to 20%?
More or less?

[Miguel_Sanchez]

How many times have you had people tell you that they felt sick, thought there was something seriously wrong with them, went to the ER and were told that they were dehydrated and given IVs? 
We  give our horse up to 10ccs of lasix four hours before they race, withdraw their water, dehydrate them  and then expect them to give us maximum performance.  Something about that just doesn't make sense to me but what do I know?

Who said you have to withdraw water just because you give Lasix?  That is the absolute worst thing you can do.  Water doesn't effect Lasix and only increases the dehydration by restricting it.  This is one of the biggest fallacies with Lasix.

[Kirbys Ace]

Lasix will cover many drugs. No, I don't have the list, but it will cover Bute! I know that for a fact 100% well, 100% for me!

[Equus Caballus]

Not to be a jerk,
 but what do you call a "good amount"?
5% to 10%?
10% to 20%?
More or less?

I could only speak from what I’ve experienced, but I’ve had a lot of horses never piss in the spit box and sometimes the paddock. Lasix or not. The people working the spit box typically want you right into the stall as soon as you are done bathing and sometimes don’t give too much time to cool the horse off. Everyone seems to have their own method of cooling out whether be walking or nothing. Horse doesn’t piss in certain time they just pull blood. They have other races to work and can’t become backed up.

Aside that, some horses piss right away, lasix or not.