VIP Racing syndicate/parthership

[dougie]

I been thinking about getting involved with couple of horses being offered up for partnership. Has any in this group had any experience with VIP Racing? What are some of your thoughts about them as a viable alternative to the old way of getting involved in the business?

[wizardofoz]

Tried them years ago. Bought in to a NZ horse that got sick here and never raced.  You won't be listed in the program. You just pay your % of the bills and get your % of any purse checks.

[Inside The Track]

I was involved with them, nothing but inflated bills. Stay away, anytime there is a middleman you get screwed.

[LUCPARK]

PYRAMID SCHEME

[Miguel_Sanchez]

been around for years and the bills are marked up 10-20% plus there 10% management fee.  Highly illegal what they do marking up the fees.  Never seen anyone make money with them and they have been getting smaller and smaller every yr.

[dougie]

Thanks for all your advise!

[warrawee]

Been with them 15 plus years.  Like everything there will be some flaws but it's for the person who wants to be involved in the game and only be invested for smaller %.  I had some good ones (2 time Levy winner) and What Stanley Got 175,000 plus winner this year just to name a couple.  Also, had some that didn't pay there way.  Communication is great they always got back to me when I had questions or concerns.  Bills are a little high but if you want to get in for a smaller % I would recommend.

[RANDOLPH POKER]

Someone asked recently about them.  Here are some stats on their current 2YOs.  Not sure of the trainer on one of the non starters.

Yes, it's early in the season.  Yes, not include residual value.
Yes, doesn't include training bills and stakes payments for 8-11 months.


VIP STABLE RESULTS – 2-YEAR-OLDS (AS OF 8/11/24)

TOTAL COST: $612,000
TOTAL EARNINGS: $178,419

AVERAGE COST (18): $34,000

AVERAGE EARNINGS PER TROTTER (7) $9,828
AVERAGE EARNINGS PER PACER (12) $9,135

By Trainer:
Brown: 6
Beaver: 5
Stratton: 3
Engblom: 1
Butenschoen: 1
Kelley: 1
Julie Miller: 1

HORSE (Breeding) Sales Price (Sale) (Trainer) Earnings (# of starts)
Chanceoflightning (f, Courtly Choice) $18,000 (Goshen) (Cory Stratton) $55,190 (5)
Uncle Moneybags (g, Uncle Peter) $37,000 (Jug) (Chris Beaver) $44,650 (4)
Pants On Fire (c, Catch The Fire) $20,000 (Jug) (Brian Brown) $33,750 (3)
Surreal Believer (f, So Surreal) $15,000 (Goshen) (Stratton) $10,933 (6)
Milky Way Bay (f, Cantab Hall) $22,000 (Lex) (John Butenschoen) $9,420 (5)
Ladyanne Volo (f, Walner) $32,000 (Lex) (Beaver) $6,750 (2)
Smart Guy (g, Huntsville) $50,000 (Goshen) (Julie Miller) $6,400 (3)
   Sold 8/2/24 - $31,200 - OnGait
Miss Fancy Nancy (f, JK Endofanera) $20,000 (Lex) (Brown) $2,750 (2)
Moni Man (g, Walner) $45,000 (HBG) (Paul Kelley) $3,750 (1)
Speed Of An Angel (f, Marseilles) $31,000 (Jug) (Beaver) $3,696 (6)
Lou’s Starr (c, Sweet Lou) $32,000 (Lex) (Stratton) $600 (4)
Gowiz The Boys (f, What The Hill) $30,000 (Jug) (Beaver) $531 (3)
Dark Magic (f, Tall Dark Stranger) $55,000 (Lex) (Brown)  $0 (n/s)
Where’s Papi (c, Papi Rob Hanover) $45,000 (Lex) (Brown) $0 (0)
Blossom (f, Tall Dark Stranger) $50,000 (Lex) (Per Engblom) $0 (3)
Catch Up To Me (c, Catch The Fire) $30,000 (Jug) (Brown) $0 (n/s)
Sea Cruise (c, Downbytheseaside) $40,000 (Jug) (Brown) $0 (1)
Grooved Pavement (c, Long Tom) $40,000 (Jug) (Beaver) $0 (4)
Two Levy’s (c, Keystone Velocity) $0 (n/s)

[wizardofoz]

Typical and terrible results and these trainers make out like bandits with yearlings for 10 months of no expectations and jogging and feeding babies while they lower their times gradually a few times each week.

[Open bridle]

Someone asked recently about them.  Here are some stats on their current 2YOs.  Not sure of the trainer on one of the non starters.

Yes, it's early in the season.  Yes, not include residual value.
Yes, doesn't include training bills and stakes payments for 8-11 months.


VIP STABLE RESULTS – 2-YEAR-OLDS (AS OF 8/11/24)

TOTAL COST: $612,000
TOTAL EARNINGS: $178,419

AVERAGE COST (18): $34,000

AVERAGE EARNINGS PER TROTTER (7) $9,828
AVERAGE EARNINGS PER PACER (12) $9,135

By Trainer:
Brown: 6
Beaver: 5
Stratton: 3
Engblom: 1
Butenschoen: 1
Kelley: 1
Julie Miller: 1

HORSE (Breeding) Sales Price (Sale) (Trainer) Earnings (# of starts)
Chanceoflightning (f, Courtly Choice) $18,000 (Goshen) (Cory Stratton) $55,190 (5)
Uncle Moneybags (g, Uncle Peter) $37,000 (Jug) (Chris Beaver) $44,650 (4)
Pants On Fire (c, Catch The Fire) $20,000 (Jug) (Brian Brown) $33,750 (3)
Surreal Believer (f, So Surreal) $15,000 (Goshen) (Stratton) $10,933 (6)
Milky Way Bay (f, Cantab Hall) $22,000 (Lex) (John Butenschoen) $9,420 (5)
Ladyanne Volo (f, Walner) $32,000 (Lex) (Beaver) $6,750 (2)
Smart Guy (g, Huntsville) $50,000 (Goshen) (Julie Miller) $6,400 (3)
   Sold 8/2/24 - $31,200 - OnGait
Miss Fancy Nancy (f, JK Endofanera) $20,000 (Lex) (Brown) $2,750 (2)
Moni Man (g, Walner) $45,000 (HBG) (Paul Kelley) $3,750 (1)
Speed Of An Angel (f, Marseilles) $31,000 (Jug) (Beaver) $3,696 (6)
Lou’s Starr (c, Sweet Lou) $32,000 (Lex) (Stratton) $600 (4)
Gowiz The Boys (f, What The Hill) $30,000 (Jug) (Beaver) $531 (3)
Dark Magic (f, Tall Dark Stranger) $55,000 (Lex) (Brown)  $0 (n/s)
Where’s Papi (c, Papi Rob Hanover) $45,000 (Lex) (Brown) $0 (0)
Blossom (f, Tall Dark Stranger) $50,000 (Lex) (Per Engblom) $0 (3)
Catch Up To Me (c, Catch The Fire) $30,000 (Jug) (Brown) $0 (n/s)
Sea Cruise (c, Downbytheseaside) $40,000 (Jug) (Brown) $0 (1)
Grooved Pavement (c, Long Tom) $40,000 (Jug) (Beaver) $0 (4)
Two Levy’s (c, Keystone Velocity) $0 (n/s)

Pants on Fire bought for $20k and sold for $150k after qualifier. Made a good profit. Whether you buy through a partnership or individually it's still a high risk lottery ticket. Expect to lose more than you make.

[PineHurstPacer]

This has been a tax write off for billionaires since it's inception

[Dingus]

I was involved with them about 10 years ago.  For 1 of the horses that I owned a piece of, I figured the horse had to make over $65,000/year in order to break EVEN.
Double charging, overcharging, and charges for things I never had to pay for before or after that experience with them.

[Slobbert23]

SCAM

[Grandstand Handicapper]

I never looked at any of these. Obviously you have to dig deep and see where and how much the syndicator/management company is taking. Period. If you do find one that is not a pig, know this-----look at how they sell it. If they make it sound like a good investment, diversification, alternative investment/asset class, etc.-----run away. If they sell it as an experience, a less expensive way to get involved and get exposure to the business, they sell it as fun, something you can't or financially don't want to do on your own, and so forth; and you have the money to burn it-----go ahead, have fun!

Aside from Guida, the farms and Wall St., which were very different, the very early days of partnerships had some trainers doing this. The infamous David Rovine brought it to another level. Then ownership groups emerged, some partnered with trainers. Twin Towers was a big one until (some of) those guys were arrested at the Meadowlands and taken out in handcuffs. Maybe for some people, and a few dollars, this works. West Point Thoroughbreds has built an entire company on this, and they sell it the right way. Do they make money? Sure they do. Looks like a lot! LOL. But, to each their own.

[The Exporter]

Eddie, The founding and managing partner in VIP Stables is a good guy. An accountant from North Carolina, and a true student of the game. You have just as much a chance of being part of a good one as you do with any other partnership. Maybe a better chance, as he buys and races more than most. But yes, expenses are high.
 Just like most partnerships, the General Partner reduces his expenses and increases his chances with other people's money.