UGH OH - super horse Karl beat

[MIKE CAMPBELL]

He had a perfect trip, left a little AND GIVEN A HOLE, .!!!!  Very lucky to salvage third.  Stud fee dropped $5,000 and if he doesn’t step up it isn’t going to be pretty.

Karl finished second.

[wizardofoz]

Karl is not an all-time champ whatsoever. He is dominating his class and that should be respected but there were far better trotting champs than him. 

[rainman2]

Who has ever put Karl on a GOAT list? His history has yet to be written. Once again...Karl will be remembered as the greatest trotter of all time.

The 'greatest' trotters of all time have to race over all 4 size ovals (1 mile-2 turns, 7/8 mile-2 turns, 5/8 mile-3 turns, and 1/2 mile-4 turns) not 2!  Karl has NEVER raced on a 5/8-mile track and a 1/2-mile track!  Please read it here on horseplop.  More likely than not, Karl will not race on a 'smaller' track!

12 records

Track Code   Race Date   Race No.   Coded Class   Video Formats *   **

LEX   09/15/2024   6   KYSS   n/a
LEX   09/08/2024   3   KYSS   n/a
LEX   08/25/2024   6   KYSS   Streaming Video
LEX   08/13/2024   6   KYSS   Streaming Video
M   08/03/2024   12   Hambo F   Streaming Video
M   07/27/2024   9   Hambo E   Streaming Video
M   07/13/2024   6   S Dancer   Streaming Video
M   06/29/2024   6   Reynolds   Streaming Video
M   05/31/2024   10   NJSS FINAL   Streaming Video
M   05/18/2024   10   NJSS   Streaming Video
M   05/11/2024   4   NJSS   Streaming Video
M   04/27/2024   8   Qua   n/a

11 records
Track Code   Race Date   Race No.   Coded Class   Video Formats *   **
M   11/25/2023   5   VllyVictry   Streaming Video
M   11/04/2023   7   Kndrgarten   Streaming Video
HOP   10/27/2023   13   BrCrown-F   Streaming Video
HOP   10/19/2023   9   BrCrown-E   Streaming Video
LEX   10/06/2023   3   INTSTALION   Streaming Video
LEX   09/28/2023   12   BLUEGRASS   Streaming Video
LEX   09/17/2023   5   KYSSFINAL   Streaming Video
LEX   09/03/2023   9   KYSS   Streaming Video
LEX   08/20/2023   6   KYSS   Streaming Video
M   08/04/2023   3   Kndrgarten   Streaming Video
M   07/28/2023   2   2yr C   n/a

[Miguel_Sanchez]

The 'greatest' trotters of all time have to race over all 4 size ovals (1 mile-2 turns, 7/8 mile-2 turns, 5/8 mile-3 turns, and 1/2 mile-4 turns) not 2!  Karl has NEVER raced on a 5/8-mile track and a 1/2-mile track!  Please read it here on horseplop.  More likely than not, Karl will not race on a 'smaller' track!

12 records

Track Code   Race Date   Race No.   Coded Class   Video Formats *   **

LEX   09/15/2024   6   KYSS   n/a
LEX   09/08/2024   3   KYSS   n/a
LEX   08/25/2024   6   KYSS   Streaming Video
LEX   08/13/2024   6   KYSS   Streaming Video
M   08/03/2024   12   Hambo F   Streaming Video
M   07/27/2024   9   Hambo E   Streaming Video
M   07/13/2024   6   S Dancer   Streaming Video
M   06/29/2024   6   Reynolds   Streaming Video
M   05/31/2024   10   NJSS FINAL   Streaming Video
M   05/18/2024   10   NJSS   Streaming Video
M   05/11/2024   4   NJSS   Streaming Video
M   04/27/2024   8   Qua   n/a

11 records
Track Code   Race Date   Race No.   Coded Class   Video Formats *   **
M   11/25/2023   5   VllyVictry   Streaming Video
M   11/04/2023   7   Kndrgarten   Streaming Video
HOP   10/27/2023   13   BrCrown-F   Streaming Video
HOP   10/19/2023   9   BrCrown-E   Streaming Video
LEX   10/06/2023   3   INTSTALION   Streaming Video
LEX   09/28/2023   12   BLUEGRASS   Streaming Video
LEX   09/17/2023   5   KYSSFINAL   Streaming Video
LEX   09/03/2023   9   KYSS   Streaming Video
LEX   08/20/2023   6   KYSS   Streaming Video
M   08/04/2023   3   Kndrgarten   Streaming Video
M   07/28/2023   2   2yr C   n/a

Gee 3 tracks in his entire life?  Well traveled.  4 more and likely done and my guess lucky if he get's 15k stud fee. Tactical approcah is 12,500 and much better pedigree and never had soundness issues like Karl. 

[rainman2]

Gee 3 tracks in his entire life?  Well traveled.  4 more and likely done and my guess lucky if he get's 15k stud fee. Tactical approcah is 12,500 and much better pedigree and never had soundness issues like Karl.

Is 'well traveled' "sarcastic" or serious? 

The only good thing for the horse is that it raced at the same track for multiple starts in a row before moving on to the next race.

Many other horses of this caliber are racing at different tracks each start.  A lot easier (for the horse and staff) racing at 1 venue for extended time compared to the traveling road show with different engagements each start.

At 2 years old

2 consecutive starts (1Q+1 race) at The Meadowlands
5 consecutive starts at Lexington
2 consecutive starts at Hoosier
2 consecutive starts at The Meadowlands

At 3

7 consecutive starts [1Q+7 races] at The Meadowlands
4 consecutive starts at Lexington

[Papillon]

Who has ever put Karl on a GOAT list? His history has yet to be written. Once again...Karl will be remembered as the greatest trotter of all time.

give it up

you were way wrong here

just face facts--he was never close to being a great trotter

[MIKE CAMPBELL]

give it up

you were way wrong here

just face facts--he wasnt never close to being a great trotter

I never said he was. The only one not facing facts is you.

[Parked]

Karl finished second.

Karl was the first one to get beat….

[halfinhalfout]

It is not that he is so good....he is the best of a very average group.  Visually he is unimpressive...lo oks like a horse.
Most of the really great trotters had a deeper girth.  He is what running horse people refer to as 'scopey'.

[JT]

It is not that he is so good....he is the best of a very average group.  Visually he is unimpressive...lo oks like a horse.
Most of the really great trotters had a deeper girth.  He is what running horse people refer to as 'scopey'.

With a trotter I want to see them stretch their legs out as far as possible in their gait reaching for racetrack. Karl doesn't do that at all.

[wizardofoz]

[Grandstand Handicapper]

Of course it would have depended on the rest of his season. Had he won out $40 to $50,000.  Right now he is just another very nice horse.  Today he lost more value than he would gain with a BC win.

In all due respect, no shot whatsoever. Not even close. It's just not that kind of marketplace right now. Sure, we've seen all kinds of yearlign records broken, but that's not the entire marketplace, that's a very small segment, with the rest of the market being pumped up, manipulated, etc. Even in the super high end of the marketplace, those #'s are BS anyway. The highest trotting stud fee on the market is, what, $40k? And that's for a stallion (Walner) with a proven track record, and averaged over $125k per yearling at a select sale. I am not a breeder, but I breed a very few select mares that I bought or kept. More importantly, I go to every yearling sale, talk to breeders, farms, buyers, etc. The marketplace right now is very top and upper mid heavy, and premium. It's not the general public or the people here who are dictating the market. They are not the buyers.

The breeders and the yearling buyers saw this horse win the Hambo "because" and/or "despite." We all know the because and/or despite. They've seen him before and after. So, first, if he wins what's left in KY, runs the table, and the BC, he'll have some stellar stats, they'll say he's best in class, and he'll go stand somewhere for an average first year Hambo and/or BC winner stud fee. He'll get pumped up like they do every year. Second, if he comes back next year, matures, grows out of his issues, and becomes a completely different horse-----and he has a Bulldog Hanover or Artsplace kind of 4yo year, then we are talking about a totally different story. But, if he doesn't do either, and people talk about a GOAT list, or even talk about this horse next year, in a few years.....you'll say Karl, and people will say, "Who?"

[Grandstand Handicapper]

I guess almost everyone here even sees him for what he is.

[MIKE CAMPBELL]

I guess almost everyone here even sees him for what he is.

One sentence. Hard to believe.

[jupiter]

They all get beat, get over it. He's still got over 750K, more races to go. He will still end up standing stud, and people will breed to him. They won't care about skipping 1/2 or 5/8 mile tracks.