UGH OH - super horse Karl beat

[bond]

Mike-I wasn't going to reply--but your comments in this last post-IMHO is WRONG .
Secretariat-51 years ago-won the triple crown-and STILL holds the records for those races--no one has been able to beat it despite improvements in training techniques,Vet treatments,nutrition etc. Hell--even aged horses havent beaten his Belmont Stakes winning time-not even close and all by himself.
Now I agree-harness horses seem to have improved--but 50 years ago--there was no EPO,milkshaking , PED's etc-which according to what I read just about every day here on Plop--has resulted in fake "super" horses.
What has improved is trotters of today-seem to be better gaited and have better manners-and are trained lightly-as there are no more heat races where the fittest and the most endurance abled horses won. Today-its all about speed so no wonder the times have improved. The race bikes of today are seconds faster than those of yesteryear-and no hub rail allows the wheels to be closer to the inside-=faster times.
Go tell the Europeans that Karl is a world beater--he wouldnt get a check racing vs the top 3yo's in Europe.He lacks the gate speed to be prominent on smaller tracks-so on a 5/8 like Sweden-he'd get lost as no way can he beat them parked out the mile like some of the real GOAT have done.
The ONLY way Karl could be a GOAT is if he beats the worlds best a number of times..

[Here they come]

Even Andy miller and secret agent man were going by Karl when he jumped

[JT]

Karl would have jerked the bridle off of horses like Mack Lobell,Varenne, Ourasi, Moni Maker, Peace Corp, etc. He trots in 1:50 every week. None of them had the innate ability to do so. Were they champions? Of course they were but evolution has made Karl a faster horse than them. This is not an opinion, it is fact. Just like horses, humans have become faster and stronger due to evolution, as well. Every 1-2 generations, carbon based life forms evolve into stronger, faster and even smarter beings. Please don't give me the "track surface" and "inferior equipment" excuse. If you don't think evolution is real, go look at a basketball game from the 60's. Michael Jordan or Lebron James in their present day shape would have averaged 200 point per game against players from that era. If their was a time machine that could take Usain Bolt back to the 1960's, he would have won his sprints by yards and not inches. All athletes of today, whether it is humans or equines are superior to the competitors of 40-50 years ago.

Are you insane.. John Campbell when I personally spoke to him said Mack Lobell was the greatest he ever drove. You are clock watching to much.. is Karl faster then those greats of the past. Yes because of evolution and breeding like you mentioned... It comes down to resume against the competition you faced during each horses era. Karl could not even win a sire stakes final  with a perfect trip LOL..  if he races at 4 and wins 13 out of 15 than I'll eat my words but I would be shocked if that happens

[Papillon]

why does the industry and fans stare at the clock so incessantly?

[kantseeback]

great horses get beat but this horse is nowhere near the best of all time

Muscle Hill
Mack Lobell
Sebastian K
Atlanta
Manchego
Jiggy Jog

all would eat Karl's lunch in the stretch...karl is a very very good horse but they have babied him and he is avoiding alot of the big races and was going to beat here by Secret Agent Man in the stretch if he didnt blow up

I think American Winner might belong on that list.

[kooter for hipin]

   People like to use John Campbell as a barometer.  I think overall, he was the GOAT at this writing, however, JC got a bad case of the shits when he crossed the George Washington Bridge, so did Adios Vic and a plethora of closers. People also say that Zenyetta was the best filly/mare, however, she was pure closer that beat a lot of mediocre fillies/mares during the time. Ruffian was the greatest. When they had the great match race, the ky derby winner's jock, Jacinto Vasquez who drove Foolish Pleasure the entire season chose Ruffian. Sorry to go off topic a little, however, people mistake horses who go these incredible last quarters as being great. They are in fact considered by horsemen to be nickel-plated because they need the race to be made for them. Great horses win on the muscle. Enough said.

[rainman2]

why does the industry and fans stare at the clock so incessantly?

Because the thoroughbred people don't!

[MIKE CAMPBELL]

That is like saying todays 5 claimers are better then Niatross.  Yet nobody would call fill in the blank 5 claimer as being better then him.  I have to agree , Karl is very nice and fast but nowhere near an all time great.

All I said is he is faster than the the trotters 40 or so years ago. I sat behind horses in the 70's and I sat behind horses this morning and there is no comparison. Today's horse is much faster and has much more stamina. That is due to evolution. Bob Cousy, Elgin Baylor and Oscar Robertson were GOAT when they played. I guarantee you, they couldn't make an NBA team today. Rambling Willie, Tarport Hap, Silk Stockings all great horses would have a hard time getting checks in mid level races at M1 or Yonkers in 2024. Idiots are posting things like you are looking at the timer and not the horse. Well fuck yes, I am looking at the timer. The fastest horse gets the trophy morons and the horses from yesteryear would not be able to keep up in 2024.

[rainman2]

Are you insane.. John Campbell when I personally spoke to him said Mack Lobell was the greatest he ever drove. You are clock watching to much.. is Karl faster then those greats of the past. Yes because of evolution and breeding like you mentioned... It comes down to resume against the competition you faced during each horses era. Karl could not even win a sire stakes final  with a perfect trip LOL..  if he races at 4 and wins 13 out of 15 than I'll eat my words but I would be shocked if that happens

Sorry, I won't start on the beginning of your post.

There are 2 sides of the coin---

How much better would Mack Lobell be today with better feed, nutrition, medical advances, racebikes, race surfaces, etc.?

Now take a look at Karl having to go to Mack Lobell's in his time frame with what the program of the day was back then.

[wizardofoz]

Race replay and the camera at the Red Mile moves a bit:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5Vy5F3y3hw

[MIKE CAMPBELL]

Mike-I wasn't going to reply--but your comments in this last post-IMHO is WRONG .
Secretariat-51 years ago-won the triple crown-and STILL holds the records for those races--no one has been able to beat it despite improvements in training techniques,Vet treatments,nutrition etc. Hell--even aged horses havent beaten his Belmont Stakes winning time-not even close and all by himself.
Now I agree-harness horses seem to have improved--but 50 years ago--there was no EPO,milkshaking , PED's etc-which according to what I read just about every day here on Plop--has resulted in fake "super" horses.
What has improved is trotters of today-seem to be better gaited and have better manners-and are trained lightly-as there are no more heat races where the fittest and the most endurance abled horses won. Today-its all about speed so no wonder the times have improved. The race bikes of today are seconds faster than those of yesteryear-and no hub rail allows the wheels to be closer to the inside-=faster times.
Go tell the Europeans that Karl is a world beater--he wouldnt get a check racing vs the top 3yo's in Europe.He lacks the gate speed to be prominent on smaller tracks-so on a 5/8 like Sweden-he'd get lost as no way can he beat them parked out the mile like some of the real GOAT have done.
The ONLY way Karl could be a GOAT is if he beats the worlds best a number of times..

Here is a list of the top Universities specializing in evolution. Don't believe me. Call them.

https://edurank.org/biology/evolutionary/us/

[whiptherabbit]

What was the reason he was not entered for the Canadian Trotting Classic? Final goes for big money Saturday night.

[Grandstand Handicapper]

Race replay and the camera at the Red Mile moves a bit:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M5Vy5F3y3hw

Everyone can see it. A lot of talk about if he does this, if he does that, GOAT list, and so on. At this point, that is a lot of talk, because the others caught up to him and he's got some issues. Convergence of circumstances. Bottom line, at this point, this colt has got to prove it.....because this colt was 1-9, in a seven horse field, in a $400k race, that they were pointing toward, and even more, look at the field. This was no Hambo or major competitive top stakes field. Weak field for $400k. There are losses in a horses career that are irrelevant, and more importantly, there are losses in a horses career that can show a horse's greatness, contribute to defining a horse's greatness. This loss was worlds away from that.

He's got two breeders in his ownership group. This could be an interesting fall for this colt. What does Crawford want to do and what does Bender want to do.....and of course Takter!

[Miguel_Sanchez]

People need to know if Andy doesn't make uncharacteristic break he goes right by and Karl is 3rd!  So i don't wanna hear he was 2nd and barely fot beat.  Andy was winning that race by an open length.  His season is over.  He won't get a sniff in the KY Futurity and he won't get a sniff in the BC.  Kismet will win Canada, KY Futurity, BC and HE will be 3yo Trotter of the year. 

[Parked]

How about if Andy does not give Karl a hole ??  Softened him up a little and Andys horse would have been in better position.   Lots of ifs. 
Karl got his typical trip and got thumped.