0 Members and 6 Guests are viewing this topic.
How can you compare a horse bred 45 years ago with one bred today? It is estimated that the genetic enhancements have likely contributed to a speed improvement of around 2-3 seconds per mile. This estimate is based on the understanding that modern pacing horses are bred for better gait, athleticism, and overall performance, then you have to take account of the improved bikes, track surfaces etc and there is another 3 to 4 seconds. Yes the individual Cam Fella born 45 or so years ago if racing today would not achieve a 46 mile but neither would any other horse bred in his timeline. He wouldn't be a 53 pacer today either, with the established equipment and track improvements he would probably be between 49 and 50 and maybe even a bit faster because he had heart.
I'm extremely jealous of you Grandstand. What an awesome horse to own a part of. I bet you could tell some great stories. Cam Fella was one of my favorites when I was 7 or 8 years old.
Thanks, but there weren't any great stories or the like, because I owned a share in him (as a stallion). The "Two Norms" did tell some great stories about him when they were campaigning him, traveling, etc. But, then again, how great could the stories be.....he only went in 153.1From Ed & Beverley Paquet's Tribute webpage:Voted Harness Horse of the Year - 1982 and 1983 in both the US and in CanadaChampion Three-year-old Pacer - 1982Pacing Horse of the Year - 1982Champion Aged Pacer - 1983Pacer of the Year - 1983Inducted into the Canadian Horse Racing Hall of Fame and the American Harness Racing Hall of FamePosted more consecutive 2:00 wins than any other Standardbred in history with 32Won 28 consecutive races and was known as "The Pacing Machine"Nation's leading Standardbred sire multiple timesRetired as richest Standardbred in the history of harness racing -- 1983Sired 13 crops of foals, including three-year-olds of 2000, who have earned in excess of $100 MillionSire of 14 millionaires and 4 winners of "The Little Brown Jug"Held track record at Roosevelt, Sportsman's Park, Edmonton, Greenwood, Mohawk, Pompano Park, & CloverdaleWon two legs of the Pacing Triple crown - the Cane Pace and Messenger Pace in 1982Won the Canadian Pacing Triple Crown, Canadian Pacing Derby, Prix d'Ete, Provincial Cup, World Cup, American-National, U.S. Pacing Championship, Mohawk Gold Cup, & Frank Ryan Memorial.From the Canadian Hall of Fame:His wins at age three included the Cane Pace, Queen City Pace (now called the North America Cup), Monticello-OTB Classic, Prix d’Ete, Messenger, Provincial Cup and the Confederation Cup. At four his 30 wins in 36 starts included the Stewart Fraser Memorial, Canadian Pacing Derby, B.C. Classic, World Cup, Graduate and Driscoll Series, Frank Ryan Memorial, American-National Maturity, Blue Bonnets Challenge Cup, Mohawk Gold Cup and U.S. Pacing Championships at Roosevelt and Sportsmans Park.Retired to stud in New Jersey, Cam Fella became one of the greatest progenitors in the history of the standardbred horse. He sired 1,002 foals. His offspring accumulated $106.9 million and included 16 winners of at least $1 million and 268 performers that earned $100,000 or more. His millionaires include Eternal Camnation, Presidential Ball, Cams Card Shark, Precious Bunny and Camluck. His daughters proved to be prolific producers as well. Jennas Beach Boy (p,4, 1:47.3) and winner of $1.9 million is out of one of Cam’s daughters. Cam’s stud career ended in 1997 when he had to be gelded because of cancer. To ensure that Cam Fella’s “unparalleled contributions to the sport are never forgotten,” Standardbred Canada established “The Cam Fella Award” to recognize extreme effort and dedication to Canadian harness racing by an individual or group.BUT...none of it means anything. He only went in 153.1He'd get beat by every 10 claimer at the Meadowlands and Woodbine/Mohawk.
today's race bikes and drivers and he's a 47-48 pacer.
Prove it, oh right, YOU CAN'T.
Very true.Same way that no one can prove Karl would even break 2:00 on the trot back then.
wow...anyone that thinks time is the biggest factor never watched Cam Fella or On the Road Again or any really good horses, they went fast enough to win.Its all about class, class will overcome speed.....Steady Star time trialed in '52 and got beat by a mid level horse in his next start.When its time to 'hear the music' class shows.Perhaps 'Karl' is the class of his group..but they aren't an overly impressive group.
Thanks for making my point. Like I said, the only fact is time. All the other things you mentioned are maybe and probably. Equipment, medications, track surface are all subjective. Is today's bike 2 seconds faster, 3 seconds faster, 4 seconds faster. Is today's track surface 2 seconds faster, 3 seconds faster, 4 seconds faster. If you want to debate all those variables, have at it. I'm dealing with the only fact in horse racing and that is time. FACT..Cam Fella was a 1:53 pacer.
Cam Fella won more races in one year than todays studs end their total starts careers with. Todays horses are 1 mile dash horses, drugged to the gills, point them and go. Even if todays trainers has SOME SKILLS at training a horse for 2 or 3 heats the horses couldnt take it. The great trainers can still get it done but it takes a special horse. If they pulled random races for a 3 day detention barn you would see lots of horses, if not most, go very flat miles if they were not scratched first.
Biggest factor.....and ONLY factor.....don't leave that part out. Also, anyone who thinks that could not have seen any truly great horses race, because they were too busy watching the teletimer. People who look at teletimers and say it's the only factor, do so because they have to. It's the only thing they can look at because it's the only thing they are capable of looking at. When you know little, more applicably nothing about horses, you look at something that is purely objective.I guess class may have had something to do with Karl getting beat by what? An average horse? Well, he got beat by a horse that certainly would not be on anyone's GOAT list. Karl, on a GOAT list. This is what the sport has come to. Top 10? Top 20? Top 50? I guess it doesn't matter. By the way folks, just remember the teletimer.....may be you should only look at the teletimer BEFORE you bet your money. Then look at the teletimer AFTER. Don't worry, you'll have a lot less money to look at.
Who decides which horse has class and which horse doesn't jerkoff. Are you the authority? All I have posted is a horse's time is the only fact regarding a horse's performance. Everything else is subjective including where they finish because assholes like you would then say that they didn't beat anything. I also posted that all those horses that were mentioned were great champions but of course, that is never posted when replying in your sarcastic and I am superior to everyone else attitude. You may have several idiots on this board impressed with your bullshit but not I. I see an insecure little man that is screaming, Look at me, I know this guy and I know that guy and I did this blah blah blah. You are an egomaniac plain and simple. Keep on hiding behind a screen name. You are full of shit in many eyes until you reveal yourself so people can assess who you are.
Karl...one of the greatest trotters of all time.Karl, the greatest trotter of all time.Karl, on the the greatest trotters of all time list.Doesn't matter what you say, how you say it, semantics, teletimers, whatever. Just go and repeat it to yourself. Slowly. Over and over again. Countless times. Over the course of a substantial period of time. Keep doing it. Try. Really hard. It won't be easy. I wish you good luck and all the best. I hope you get through this.
Never said any of those sentences and you know I didn't. You're a coward and probably a liar. You don't fool me, loser.
