UGH OH - super horse Karl beat

[Mazola]

We had a FFA horse here in TORONTO called CRYSTAL LENS who was super lame and he had four legs move in different directions but i would have loved to see him sound,,,,,,,,,,,He was a super high priced horse out of a world champion mare and was sold for a small amount as an older horse but was he fast

San Pail was a nice one from the Toronto area.

[Any1Left]

San pail was a great horse considering the trainers record as i can not remember one horse he ever made money with,,,,,,,,,,,,,But it was not a great era for trotters,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,He was still great......

[Parked]

How about this one.....Grades Singing!

When she retired only Peace Corps had won more money and Grades Singing didn't have any big money races as a 2yo. Over the span of her career, she went on to win three Breeders Crowns. Three! And seven world records! Do you think we should let Karl race in one BC first? Nah, even if he wins, he's not on any respectable person's GOAT list.

Now, ready for this.....as a 4yo.....at Yonkers.....SHE BEAT PACERS! Anyone remember this? Now, if you don't believe this, before you claim it isn't true.....like George Berkner training Goalie Jeff.....you might want to check this out.....unless you have an aversion to being wrong.

She won 20 of 25 at three, including multiple NYSS, about ten Quebec Circuit Stakes, and the CTA Championship. At four, she raced 41 times, finishing first-second 34 times, winning the Maple Leaf Trot, the American Trotting Classic, the World Cup (with a world record) and the Breeders Crown. As a 5yo, she was sold overseas, and in her overseas campaign spanned several years where she won the Elitlopp, the Premio Gaetano Turilli, the Gran Premio della Lotteria, and the Prize of Nations, the Vermo Cup and the Finlandia, and the the Prijs de Giganten, which was the most prestigious race in Holland. She came back to Canada, won another Breeders Crown, and by the time she retired she had 148 starts in nine countries.

Sorry, I forgot this thread was about Karl being one of the greatest of all time.

👍👍👍she was one tough mare.  Todays horses could never stand those 2 and 3 year old numbers.  Most are “managed” for breeding.  When you play not to get beat , you lose..

[The Unstable]

How about this one.....Grades Singing!

When she retired only Peace Corps had won more money and Grades Singing didn't have any big money races as a 2yo. Over the span of her career, she went on to win three Breeders Crowns. Three! And seven world records! Do you think we should let Karl race in one BC first? Nah, even if he wins, he's not on any respectable person's GOAT list.

Now, ready for this.....as a 4yo.....at Yonkers.....SHE BEAT PACERS! Anyone remember this? Now, if you don't believe this, before you claim it isn't true.....like George Berkner training Goalie Jeff.....you might want to check this out.....unless you have an aversion to being wrong.

She won 20 of 25 at three, including multiple NYSS, about ten Quebec Circuit Stakes, and the CTA Championship. At four, she raced 41 times, finishing first-second 34 times, winning the Maple Leaf Trot, the American Trotting Classic, the World Cup (with a world record) and the Breeders Crown. As a 5yo, she was sold overseas, and in her overseas campaign spanned several years where she won the Elitlopp, the Premio Gaetano Turilli, the Gran Premio della Lotteria, and the Prize of Nations, the Vermo Cup and the Finlandia, and the the Prijs de Giganten, which was the most prestigious race in Holland. She came back to Canada, won another Breeders Crown, and by the time she retired she had 148 starts in nine countries.

Sorry, I forgot this thread was about Karl being one of the greatest of all time.

\\

I never knew about this incredibly great mare here are her unreal stats. 98 out of 115 first or second 105 out of 115 top 3!  Plus all those High level stakes.  Oh my. 

    Starts   1st   2nd   3rd   Money   Gait   Age   Time       Track
Life:   115       81   17   7   $2,190,872   T   4   1:57   F   PPK F
                      

[Grandstand Handicapper]

San Pail was a great horse, and I am not taking anything whatsoever away from him, his accomplishments, nor his career. He performed on the highest level over a substantial period of time----by North American standards----here in North America. He might be the greatest North American based trotter of this generation. However, as I said in a previous post, I would not have him on my GOAT list. He dominated Canadian trotting, and beat NA's best when he won the BC. However, that is a far, very far distance from a GOAT list. Compare what he did over his career with what the other truly greats did.

Sure, Canadians will tell you he's one of the greatest of all time, but they are without question not looking worldwide and history wide. Top drivers of today have never even seen Varenne, Ourasi, Moni Maker, Peace Corps, Mack Lobell, and the others.

[Grandstand Handicapper]

👍👍👍she was one tough mare.  Todays horses could never stand those 2 and 3 year old numbers.  Most are “managed” for breeding.  When you play not to get beat , you lose..

IIRC, she had something like 20 starts as a 2yo. She wasn't staked to anything outside Quebec and she ran in every Quebec stakes, Lotto/Perfecta, series, etc., they could pay into.

[Grandstand Handicapper]

\\

I never knew about this incredibly great mare here are her unreal stats. 98 out of 115 first or second 105 out of 115 top 3!  Plus all those High level stakes.  Oh my. 

    Starts   1st   2nd   3rd   Money   Gait   Age   Time       Track
Life:   115       81   17   7   $2,190,872   T   4   1:57   F   PPK F

105 out of 115 starts she was 1-2-3!!! And guess what.....she raced a lot on half-mile tracks!

About 92% of her lifetime starts-----115 of them----she was 1-2-3. That is truly amazing. I can see someone leaving her off a GOAT list, but not because she is not deserving. More because there are others who might be more deserving. To each their own. But it would not be a shock at all if she appeared on anyone's GOAT list. Someone told me the first time Ronnie Gurfein saw her live, at YR, he said she was a beast and that no horse might ever beat her, but a trip, a break, something out of the ordinary would have to happen. Herve drove her a lot. He really loved her.

[Any1Left]

She was a super horse but i have seen better but she was great,,,,,,,,,,,A great story about this horse was that when she went to SWEEDEN to race under GOOP she went real bad and they brought her groom over from quebec and the horse loved life again and she was paid well,,,

[Grandstand Handicapper]

She was a super horse but i have seen better but she was great,,,,,,,,,,,A great story about this horse was that when she went to SWEEDEN to race under GOOP she went real bad and they brought her groom over from quebec and the horse loved life again and she was paid well,,,

Without question she was a great horse. I wouldn't be shocked if she was left off someone's top 10 GOAT list, but not because she wasn't great, more because others were "greater" and more deserving with their accomplishments (vs. hers). OTOH, I wouldn't be shocked if I saw her near the bottom of someone's top 10 GOAT list. It's not just her "stats" line that was amazing, but she really did accomplish a lot, I mean, three BC's ---- 1986 with Herve, 1987 with Olle Goop, and again in 1989 with Olle Goop ---- and she didn't race in the 1988 Breeders Crown. Let's not forget, she won the Elitlopp too! LOL.

[The Thorn]

How about this one.....Grades Singing!

Grades Singing wins Breeders Crown 1989

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGtQFBe5TBU

[The Unstable]

Race is over and official.  Karl is no all time great.  Fast lame horse.  Only chance is to go to Burke for lameness miracle resurection like Bythemissal. 

[JT]

The teletimer is the only FACT when judging a horse's performance. I need a good laugh. Name something else factual and not subjective about judging the performance of a racehorse.

Indeed it is Sig Sauer 149.3.. Karl 150.2 I just reread alot of this thread and it's hilarious 

[Grandstand Handicapper]

If they quit with him, turn him out, and bring him back next year...you will see what kind of horse he is. I think he'd be a legit horse, and I don't know who is coming back next year, but with 2 breeders owning him, I don't think he's coming back. He is not one of the GOAT. Never was. Never will be. Nice horse. Accomplished a lot. But he doesn't even look like a major contender now. I wonder if they can get him moving in the right direction for the BC.

[rainman2]

Indeed it is Sig Sauer 149.3.. Karl 150.2 I just reread alot of this thread and it's hilarious 

ACE 12 - The Red Mile - KY - October 6, 2024
Conditions: 132nd KENTUCKY FUTURITY 3 YEAR OLD HORSE & GELDING ENTRY FEE - $7500
Gait: TrotPurse: 500,000Class: KY FUTDistance: 1 mileTrack Cond: FTTemp-Allow: 83-0Off Time: 5:30 PM (Detention Sat 4:40 PM)
Pick 4 (9-12) $20K
HN    Horse    PP    1/4    1/2    3/4    Str    Finish   Actual   LQ   Odds    Driver    Trainer
8    Sig Sauer
 3, Muscle Hill-Sigilwig    8    5°/4T    4°/4    2°/1    1/2H    1/T   1:49.3    28.2   9.59     Andrew McCarthy    Noel Daley
4    Amazing Catch
 3, Walner-Mets Life    4    4/3    5/5    8°/6T    4/2T    2/T   1:49.4    27.2   14.12     James Macdonald    Ake Svanstedt
9    Bella`s Musclehill
 3, Muscle Hill-Barn Bella    9    9/11    9/10T    9/7T    7/5    3/2   1:50.0    27.2   130.70     David Miller    R. Nifty Norman
7    Mr Bluebird
 3, Six Pack-
 Goosebump Hanover    7    8/8H    8/8T    4°/2H    5/3T    4/3T   1:50.2    29.0   88.37     Ake Svanstedt    Ake Svanstedt
11    Karl
 3, Tactical Landing-
 Avalicious    [11    7°/6T    6°/5H    3°/2    3/2H    5/4   1:50.2    29.0   2.18     Yannick Gingras    Nancy Takter
1    Wild Ticket
 3, Chapter Seven-
 On The Wild Side    1    6/6Q    7/7    6/4T    6/4T    6/5Q   1:50.3    28.3   149.30     Todd McCarthy    Marcus Melander
10    Security Protected
 3, Father Patrick-
 Thatsnotmyname    10    10/12H    10/12H    10/11T    8/9    7/8   1:51.1    27.4   81.69     Scott Zeron    Marcus Melander
3    Highland Kismet
 3, Father Patrick-
 Highland Top Hill    3    1°/1    2/1H    1/1    2/2H    8/9T   1:51.3    30.3   *1.82     Bob McClure    Mark Etsell
2    Dame Good Time
 3, Chapter Seven-
 Dame Du Lac    2    2/1    3/3    5/4Q    9/17    9/25H   1:54.3    32.4   29.80     Tim Tetrick    Travis Alexander
6    Tony Adams S
 3, Muscle Hill-
 Dreamgirl Hornline    6    3°/2    1/1H    7/5T    10/27    10/DIS          2.85     Dexter Dunn    Ake Svanstedt
5    Secret Agent Man
 3, Chapter Seven-
 Feel The Magic    5X    11/32H    11/DIS    11/DIS    11/DIS    11/DIS          15.08     Andy Miller    Julie Miller
Time:    26.3   52.4    (26.1)   1:21.0    (28.1)   1:49.3    (28.3)

NO EXCUSES for KARL after this race!  Raced mid pack with extremely fast fractions, followed the eventual and came up EMPTY! 

Where is 'IRON MIKE CAMPBELL' now?

FYI, he hasn't posted in 2 weeks, and this will not make him happy IF he reads this thread!

[Grandstand Handicapper]

I couldn't care less if someone picks a horse and says he's going to be one of the GOAT, and the horse flops, falters, whatever. So what. It's an opinion. Educated or not, informed or not, qualified or not, it's an opinion.....that and $5 gets you a fancy cup of coffee at Starbucks, LOL. Play games of semantics, insult people, name call, bully people, be nothing but a source of negativity and wasted band-width, then good riddance.