Karl

[gh2009]

To no one's surprise, the great Karl is skipping the 1st week at the Red Mile.

[Foalin at 4]

He will make a great stallion......... in Minnesota

[Papillon]

as his losses pile up--his value goes down

he will not race as a 4yo-that idea is not realistic-that is not how the industry conducts its business these days

there was a reason SBSW skipped so many races and mainly faced Ontario bred competiton--he was managed to be undefeated and that failed also

-- horses today don't dance all the dances --most have a carefully structured schedule to not stress a horse's season

i can recall Precious Bunny and Artsplace in 91 danced every dance--(even with Artsplace was supposedly "sick" his 3yo year)--ever since then horses are racing less and less

if you dance every dance-you must face adversity--shipping, outside posts, weather,  not being 100%, different sized tracks-racing almost every week-which will create losses here and there-obviously those days are long gone

slots welfare also contributed--now there are plenty of big money races to schedule around as opposed to decades ago when skipping major races was unheard of-now you can skip whatever races you want and still earn plenty and command a solid stud fee without dancing all the dances

[gh2009]

I'm old school, and if I owned a horse, I'd want him running in more races than they do today.

[Grandstand Handicapper]

I only know what I saw on the track when this horse raced. I didn't talk to anyone at Takter's. I am not a trainer and I don't play on on TV or the internet. I am not an armchair or keyboard trainer. I look at horses with an eye to bet on them, today, next week, and so on. I've been doing it for over 40 years. I think I have a good eye, but if I don't, it's still an eye that I am willing to put my money on.

That said, this horse got lucky winning the Hambo. He's subsequently been beat in a race that should have been a paid training mile. He's not 100%. Whether it be sound, healthy, peak/performance, or something else. So, they are babying him. If status quo continues, and if he can show up, his starts will be limited to the biggest of the big dances remaining---money wise and prestige wise. That's what they will do. Why? Because they have to. If he runs the table in three more big races, including the Breeders Crown, other than some created/manipulated factoid.....this is the horse is going to be remembered as one of the greatest of all time? I question if he'd make top 50 of GOAT.

[Brown jug]

papillion, not sure on your comments on the great sbsw, raced all the big races at 3
most races were in open competition , not ontario breds
21 starts, 20 wins and 1 second
and now the sire of sires
and he is the example you pick to show how inferior horses are protected nowadays???

[Grandstand Handicapper]

There are people who say SBSW was protected, ducked this, avoided that, and so on. I think people say that if you don't go to the LBJ. I think people say it if you "only" race on a half once or twice and you do it in restricted company. I also KNOW that if fans expect owners to campaign their horses up to the fans expectations, fans are going to be guaranteed disappointed. Owners campaign their horses to get maximum ROR. They put up their capital and their motivation is supposed to be to maximize ROR.

If an owner wants to let a horse do his talking in every, some, limited races, so be it. The horse will do his talking and the true experts can see, hear, listen, and watch, and they will know.

[Laag]

is the Futurity no longer heats?

[Papillon]

papillion, not sure on your comments on the great sbsw, raced all the big races at 3
most races were in open competition , not ontario breds
21 starts, 20 wins and 1 second
and now the sire of sires
and he is the example you pick to show how inferior horses are protected nowadays???

how many races of the 21 were not in Canada?--with all due respect-thats hardly "dancing all the dances"

three at M1(he lost one)

two at Lexington

one at Yonkers

correct me if  I am wrong-i believe the other 15 were in Canada

skipped the Jug
skipped the Adios
skipped the Cane
skipped the Matron

never raced on a 5/8ths track his entire career

how many were Gold Series OSS?

NONE of his 2yo races were in the USA

[Parked]

Karl certinally is not building much of a resume for a stud career.  Has to be a soundness factor.  Cut his nuts out, give him a year off and see what happens. 

[Brown jug]

raced on a 1/2  , 5 times , won all 5
not sure exactly who you think he was ducking in his 3 yr old year
in his 3 yr old year he won the following races
    na cup, meadowlands pace,confederation cup,simcoe, bluegrass,tattersals,messenger , breeders crown

i think that covers it

[Papillon]

raced on a 1/2  , 5 times , won all 5
not sure exactly who you think he was ducking in his 3 yr old year
in his 3 yr old year he won the following races
    na cup, meadowlands pace,confederation cup,simcoe, bluegrass,tattersals,messenger , breeders crown

i think that covers it

Battle of Waterloo
Gold Series
Burlington
Nasagaweya
3yo Open
Confederation Cup
Simcoe
Gold Series

his two wins in Lexington he was 1/9 and faced nothing as they seeded Art Official in the other division

not saying the horse was ducking Shadow Play/Art Official/Badlands Nitro

...but they pampered the living shit out of him and was managed for an undefeated career--did not dance all the dances

all the races i listed above didnt have any US based horses facing him

so for me(and i am aware i am on an island here) his NA Cup, Messenger and Breeders Crown were quality wins and his mystique about how great he was, we will never know because MacGrath took that away from us-not really letting show how great he might have been -instead he chose the Gold Series as his priority

Niatross was 37 for 39 and had excuses in his two losses

SBSW brought his A game to The Big M Pace, the biggest race of his career --and lost to a horse who arguably had a slightly rougher trip(they were similar trips).

[JT]

I loved the horse.. but I was very disappointed when they skipped the jug. Yes he was protected... but he was awesome. Not to mention he would more then likely still be the top sire if he was still alive. Furthermore he had that career with an average driver at best...talking about SBSW of course.

[Laag]

this is so ridiculous

Somebeachsomewher e is among the greatest of all time. So what he skipped the Jug

[JT]

this is so ridiculous

Somebeachsomewher e is among the greatest of all time. So what he skipped the Jug

I was disappointed because it was my one chance to see him in person. I don't blame the owners and trainer for skipping it at all.