Karl To Stand Stud In 2025

[Grandstand Handicapper]

The BC is going to tell the entire story. For him to be considered a great colt, by people who truly have a qualified opinion, he's going to have to win and win decisively. Impressively. No, not the teletimer. It's not going to be how fast he does it, but how he does it. He's going to have to win and dominate in order to be considered a great colt. Not the way he won the Hambo. That victory did not make him a great colt. It didn't even make him # 1 in the class. He looked great to many at 2, but to me that's because he was so far ahead of the rest of the crop. He looked, visually, so dominant, people jump and say great, will be one of the GOAT, and so on. This year, the rest of the class caught up to him. Maybe he didn't get any better. Maybe he regressed relative to the rest of the crop.

Since the Hambo, getting beat by Dame Good Time in the KYSS final did not do his so called greatness any service. DGT tripped out and won the Zweig, and won the KYSS final, both at close to 20-1. Those two victories were worth $350,000 of his $400k earnings this year. To me, he is nothing more than a face in the crowd, a lucky one, but still just a face in the crowd. He's not a top colt. Karl is lucky he finished 2nd. So, Karl losing to him was simply not good. Karl's performance in the KY Futurity didn't look good either, but I'll buy the claim that he bled.

So, for me, as they said a long ago.....it all comes down.....to the Breeders Crown. LOL.

Karl turns around and wins big. He's restored himself, his reputation, and it would make him 3yotc of the year. I don't know if that would make him a great colt. I've just seen too much so-so, mediocrity, lucky, etc. Great to me is how you do it, easy, dominate, decisive, substantially better than the rest, the best by far, and doing that way. Great, OK, maybe to some. But again, not one of the GOAT. Not even in the same universe.

[Parked]

Good horse ? Yes!, great Horse ? No!  Already tarnished.   

[Brown jug]

we can debate how great karl is, but that has no impact on wat kind of sire he will be, one or two races wont change that, it might change peoples opinion of him or their desire to bred to him
he is what he is at this point when it comes to his ability as a sire

[The Answer]

Let’s look at some actual facts. Walner had TWO starts as a two year old and made 35k. Tactical Approach made FIVE starts as a two year old and made 36k. Tactical Landing made TWO starts as a two year old and made a total of $1500! Karl already has more starts than Muscle Hill had lifetime. Karl was a great two year old and very good three year old. Hasn’t been a trotter like him in awhile.He will and should demand a high fee.

[Lance]

we can debate how great karl is, but that has no impact on wat kind of sire he will be, one or two races wont change that, it might change peoples opinion of him or their desire to bred to him
he is what he is at this point when it comes to his ability as a sire

 I agree.  Karl has been a great horse.  22 start, 18 wins, 2 seconds and a 3rd with $2.4 million and counting.  Doesn't get much better than that. He'll breed a full book of good mares at $20k.....what happens after that is anyone's guess. 

[The Exporter]

I am going along with one of the greatest breeders of trotters, in my time, Alan J. Leavitt. 2 year old speed is the single most important factor to a sire. Karl displayed Outstanding and consistent speed, winning 9 out of 10 starts. Best was a win in 1:51.2 , and earned over $1 million.
That should check most boxes for a potential breeder.

[Parked]

Let’s look at some actual facts. Walner had TWO starts as a two year old and made 35k. Tactical Approach made FIVE starts as a two year old and made 36k. Tactical Landing made TWO starts as a two year old and made a total of $1500! Karl already has more starts than Muscle Hill had lifetime. Karl was a great two year old and very good three year old. Hasn’t been a trotter like him in awhile.He will and should demand a high fee.

An opinion of one owner ,!!

[SDST2009]

we can debate how great karl is, but that has no impact on wat kind of sire he will be, one or two races wont change that, it might change peoples opinion of him or their desire to bred to him
he is what he is at this point when it comes to his ability as a sire

100% right about that. It is not always the great on track that are great in the breeding shed. And vice versa.

[Parked]

BUT !!!!   What breeder with top broodmares will jump from Walner  or Muscle
Hill to Karl??. Just maybe a couple of the share holders.  Too many variables right now.  He has to be dominate in both the eliminations and the finals.  Lots riding on the next 2 weekends that will determine his share value, his stud fee and how many quality mares he gets.  After that we have to wait 3 years. 

[SDST2009]

I am going along with one of the greatest breeders of trotters, in my time, Alan J. Leavitt. 2 year old speed is the single most important factor to a sire. Karl displayed Outstanding and consistent speed, winning 9 out of 10 starts. Best was a win in 1:51.2 , and earned over $1 million.
That should check most boxes for a potential breeder.

I have that in the back of my head too, and both Karl and TCI do check that box. I have a feeling that unless something dramatic changes, TCI is going to be significantly more affordable and for the breeder without an unlimited budget, might offer a better choice.

[TimTimTimbo]

Let’s look at some actual facts. Walner had TWO starts as a two year old and made 35k. Tactical Approach made FIVE starts as a two year old and made 36k. Tactical Landing made TWO starts as a two year old and made a total of $1500! Karl already has more starts than Muscle Hill had lifetime. Karl was a great two year old and very good three year old. Hasn’t been a trotter like him in awhile.He will and should demand a high fee.

Walner Had 8 starts as a 2yo and 2 as a 3yo and made $484,000 at 2 and 83,000 as a 3yo.  Walner would destroy Karl.  Toscano felt he could have gone 48 as a 3yo. It was a shame he got injured because he was a machine.

[rainman2]

I agree.  Karl has been a great horse.  22 start, 18 wins, 2 seconds and a 3rd with $2.4 million and counting.  Doesn't get much better than that. He'll breed a full book of good mares at $20k.....what happens after that is anyone's guess.

Will you be there for any of the action?

Seriously now, will it be commercially driven by the breeding operations swapping breedings with one other, or will the little guy get involved with a 15-20k stud fee?  If all goes well, we will find out which group of participants are on board in the very near future!

[rainman2]

I have that in the back of my head too, and both Karl and TCI do check that box. I have a feeling that unless something dramatic changes, TCI is going to be significantly more affordable and for the breeder without an unlimited budget, might offer a better choice.

The little guy wants more affordable while the big guys want higher dollar stud fees to load their pockets!  Again, time will tell all of us what will occur.