Karl

[London]

If hes out and was placed 5th..does kismet get in the final???

[Jdtrim]

He’s out cl meadowlands facebook

[Bitter Truth]

This reminds me of how people keep talking about the Jets and Cowboys.

[Grandstand Handicapper]

https://standardbredcanada.ca/news/10-21-24/karl-bows-out-breeders-crown.html

[racing123]

If hes out and was placed 5th..does kismet get in the final???

yes

[The Answer]

Mr. Bluebird was other 6th place finisher. Highland Kismet has more money won so based on that he will be in the final if he chooses.

[Grandstand Handicapper]

Interesting...Sig Sauer will be at $8k...and Karl? While the eligible crosses and the types of mares will dictate, no way can they go "low" on Karl. If they do, he'll attract second-tier broodmares. They can't afford that. For the hype, sales, and posturing---they need to hit the right number, but Sig Sauer at $8k sets a bar in the market.

[JIDGE]

They gotta go at least 12.5K for Karl and base it on the two-year-old season and the Hambo victory.

[Miguel_Sanchez]

He's got horrible pedigree and he's not even the best of his class.  They can promote him all they want but he's 7500 at best until he proves he can sire.  No different then sweet lou who stood for 6k I think his first season?

[SDST2009]

He's got horrible pedigree and he's not even the best of his class.  They can promote him all they want but he's 7500 at best until he proves he can sire.  No different then sweet lou who stood for 6k I think his first season?

I don't disagree with you but with Sig Sauer at $8k thre's no way they go lower than that.

[Parked]

Right now it is not the stud fee but the syndicated price and what the share price will be. Maybe they wont syndicate him and put the fee at $6,000 for approved mares.  Then they can sort the mares out. 

[TimTimTimbo]

I like Sig Sauer but I hope his make offspring are not a handful like he is. 


You guys would know more but Anything with Donato Hanover in it on either side, they appear to be a little nasty if Colts, is that correct?

Having said that if I was buying a mare to breed, it would be an Andover Hall or Donato or one of Andover Hall's brothers. They are golden in horses who win big races

[Grandstand Handicapper]

While I only have one broodmare, and I used to have more, I do "invest" in stallion shares. When I look at a stallion, primarily I look at what he does and how he did it on the track. I am looking for, not just a horse, but a special horse. One who is truly great. Of course I look at pedigree as well. However, when I look at the horse and what he did, how he did it, etc.----I look at the entire body of work. His entire career.

While Alan Leavitt has been credited many times for saying 2 year old speed is the single most important factor to a sire, Alan was in fact a walking and living contradiction, LOL. Alan also said, many times, and I personally heard him say it, that, stamina comes from the sire, and speed comes from the dam. Regardless, in looking at Karl as a stallion, you must look at his 2yo year. This is where the debate begins, LOL. Obviously Karl was "the" horse at 2. By "the" horse, I mean he was heads and shoulders ahead of the rest of the class. He was more than dominant. He was the best colt in the class. JMHO.

However, was he the most talented? Not accomplished, but talented? Dig deeper, did he show the most potential? For me, this was a case of Mike Tyson. He was so much better than everything else that it made him look "greater" than he was. It was a visual deception that caused many people to think he was great----and could perhaps be one of the GOAT. Now, that said, not one expert or qualified opinion that I spoke with, not one, ever thought Karl would be one of the GOAT. Not one. I didn't think he was a great colt. I thought he was dominant, best in class, would win everything not nailed down. But he was racing against a bunch of horses who just were well behind in---developmental-wise, maturity-wise, speed-wise, and more. Fast-forward to the 3yo campaign. Argue all you want about Karl regressing, not being sound, etc. However, that aside, the rest of the class caught up to him. They got better, matured, turned the corner, and caught up to him.....and as time went on, whether he was unsound, bled, whatever.....a few of the top horses in the class caught up to him.....and surpassed him. Sure, he wasn't himself, he may have been unsound, not 100%, bled (at some point), etc. But the rest of the 3yo crop, the contenders, they got better, progressed, etc., and he didn't. No offense, and taking nothing away from what the history books will say----he got lucky winning the Hambo. He was not the best horse that day, in that race.

Anyway, Crawford co-owned this horse and had dreams of winning the Hambo since before Karl started his 3yo campaign. He co-owned 2 previous Hambo winners----both fillies! But, now a colt, that's different. I think they are going to be forced into setting his stud fee high---$12,500, or even $15,000---but Sig Sauer at $8,000 does set a mark in the marketplace. If they set Karl at $10,000, or lower, he will attract lower quality mares, mares he would not get at $12.5 or $15k.

Let's see what they do.

[rainman2]

I like Sig Sauer but I hope his make offspring are not a handful like he is. 


You guys would know more but Anything with Donato Hanover in it on either side, they appear to be a little nasty if Colts, is that correct?

Having said that if I was buying a mare to breed, it would be an Andover Hall or Donato or one of Andover Hall's brothers. They are golden in horses who win big races

If horses are handful because of their bloodlines, good trainers can turn this negative into a positive by altering their training schedules, equipment changes (different bits in their mouths), and I'm sure other innovative changes.
 
FYI, when John Simpson Sr. trained Ayres at 2 many years ago, he was very hot.  Simpson changed his training methods and taught him how to follow horses which cured a problem and Ayres became a better racehorse because of this. 

[rainman2]

Interesting...Sig Sauer will be at $8k...and Karl? While the eligible crosses and the types of mares will dictate, no way can they go "low" on Karl. If they do, he'll attract second-tier broodmares. They can't afford that. For the hype, sales, and posturing---they need to hit the right number, but Sig Sauer at $8k sets a bar in the market.

IMO, the stud fee could determine whether more little people get involved or more big-name commercial breeders. 
Even the best stallion prospects have been 'total "duds"' in the breeding shed even with high quality mares. 

Good luck to one and all on those individuals that go on this venture.