KARL

[Grandstand Handicapper]

Well, considering the syndication was sold out, thankfully everyone got their money back! I mean, it was sold out, right? His book was full and closed within days, so those people got their money back too. It was full and closed, correct?

OK, nevermind about that. Isn't this an absolute perfect scenario for Karl? The pieces of the puzzle could not come together more perfectly, no? You have a weak bunch of 3yo's coming back. What about the aged group? So, considering he was retired due to being "sick----now that he's a low-count stud----it is a great opportunity to bring him back, right? I mean, the fact that he's coming back, hasn't that scared off at least a few others? Time off means he's had plenty of time to recover from being sick. He'll grow, get bigger, stronger, more mature.

On one hand, if he is the GOAT or will retire as the GOAT, he should absolutely run the table for the most part, right? Well, even if he was one of the GOAT, he should, at a bare-bones minimum, absolutely dominate, right?

[SDST2009]

Nothing about the way he ended his 3yo campaign suggests he's coming back strong. And doubly so if a suspensory tear is actually what happened.

[bestbetter]

Why all the hate on Karl? He seems like a good horse to me...

[Miguel_Sanchez]

He won't grow he won't get stronger and he will not be any better than he was at 3.  He has been a lamo his whole career.  Now he finally blew apart.  People are getting tired of every horse that Takter trains is "the best horse I have ever had"

[Harness racer]

Not sure why all the hate on KARL.   Anyone would love to have owned him the past 2 seasons.   He's not the greatest ever, but he has had a great career.  And I agree that Nancy uses the greatest horse I ever had almost every year, but he might actually be.  I'll wait to see what his 4yo brings before passing too much judgement.  Hopefully the time off has him right again.   

[Miguel_Sanchez]

The only reason they spew this bullshit is to sell the lies to breeders and owners.  Takter should have there own media department to post there bullshit.  Yes, i think anyone would want a Karl in there barn but keep your mouth shut and let the horse do the talking.  Highland Kismet will absolutely dominate next yr IF they get a real trainer and real driver.  He by far is the most talented 3yo trotter out there.  Has wicked speed and lungs.

[Locked in with pace]

Why the hate? It's the nature of the horse business, Very few owners and trainers want others to do well.

[Call Sign Merlin]

Karl is built fine like a filly - this helped him come to his speed early but also  contributed to the soundness issues once they started really knocking.  Aged division will be pretty weak but there are few cheap miles to be had at that level.  My guess he won’t be able to knock heads with them and will be very trip dependent.  Even then he doesn’t seem to have the brush like a Periculum has

[Grandstand Handicapper]

I don't hate the horse. Yes, anyone would love to own him. Owning him and not thinking he's one of the GOAT are apples and bowling balls. I just think he's not as great as many made him out to be. IMO he benefited greatly from being way ahead and heads and shoulders above his classmates at 2. Nothing I saw at 2 lead me to believe he was going to be  the GOAT or even one of the GOAT. People who don't know what they are looking at see an undefeated 2yo, or a once beat 2yo, who visually and teletimer dominates the rest of the class, and next thing you know he's the GOAT, will be the GOAT, and so on and so on. It's common.

He came back at 3 and from day one, I didn't see much from him, but on the other hand, early on I didn't see much in the entire class. It was a weak class through the Hambo----some talent, some speed, but immature and inconsistent, and not yet hitting their real stride. People disagree about the Hambo. Some say he was much the best and won like a great horse, I say he got the trip he needed and got lucky. I don't think he was the best horse that day in that race. Regardless, post-Hambo, whether he bled, was sick, not sound, etc., whatever it was----to those who thought he was one of the GOAT, he certainly was not living up to being the best in class, yet alone one of the GOAT. Yes, he will go down in history as winning the Hambo. So will Cool Pappa Bell, Yankee Paco, Chip Chip Hooray, and Alf Palema (although he continued his career and became a decent sire in Sweden). No, they didn't do what Karl did at 2, but again, to me that was more visual and teletimer. I did not see a truly great horse in Karl, and certainly not one of the GOAT. I guess we'll see what he can do as a 4yo.

[The Answer]

“head and shoulders above his classmates at 2” is what would of made him as the most popular stallion to stand in many years. 2 year old speed is what breeders and yearling buyers love!

[Grandstand Handicapper]

“head and shoulders above his classmates at 2” is what would of made him as the most popular stallion to stand in many years. 2 year old speed is what breeders and yearling buyers love!

Alan Leavitt was the first, and very adamant about 2yo speed making a great stallion. But, he was one of the few who were so visceral about it. Over the course of time, many of the commercial breeders began taking a lot more not only into consideration, but even as more heavily weighted factors. Today's buyer is looking far beyond 2yo speed. There are more super fast 2yo's who win races and don't carry that over and progress at 3, than do. Today's sophisticated buyers----who drive the market and who commercial breeders are catering to----are looking at the equivalent of classic races and they want to see classic performance in a stud.

Karl's syndication was not going to come even close to selling out---regardless of the stud fee. The major commercial breeders felt he was "just a horse" at 3 and they were not lining up to buy shares. It was talked about and common knowledge all during the Lexington sale. Even the foreign ownership didn't want him for overseas and they were looking to take money off the table with selling their interest via selling shares. I was at the sales, and I talked to breeders, and Karl was not anywhere near the top of their list.

[Grandstand Handicapper]

In addition, Karl's syndication, and book, was going to be postured as sold out, full, etc. At the announced stud fee, he would not have bred 100 mares. I had said either they were going low, 10 to 12.5 and going to sell him hard, or they were going high, maybe 20, and going to create a fictitious "sold out" image and hope he'd sell a few big money yearlings and have a few that hit. If it didn't happen, he'd be a 10k stud or less in four years.

[Miguel_Sanchez]

Alan Leavitt was the first, and very adamant about 2yo speed making a great stallion. But, he was one of the few who were so visceral about it. Over the course of time, many of the commercial breeders began taking a lot more not only into consideration, but even as more heavily weighted factors. Today's buyer is looking far beyond 2yo speed. There are more super fast 2yo's who win races and don't carry that over and progress at 3, than do. Today's sophisticated buyers----who drive the market and who commercial breeders are catering to----are looking at the equivalent of classic races and they want to see classic performance in a stud.

Karl's syndication was not going to come even close to selling out---regardless of the stud fee. The major commercial breeders felt he was "just a horse" at 3 and they were not lining up to buy shares. It was talked about and common knowledge all during the Lexington sale. Even the foreign ownership didn't want him for overseas and they were looking to take money off the table with selling their interest via selling shares. I was at the sales, and I talked to breeders, and Karl was not anywhere near the top of their list.

Yes everyone at Lexington was talking about how he was overpriced and never going to be a sire.  Beyond popular belief he has zero pedigree.  NOTHING. his bottom side is non existent.

[SDST2009]

Yes everyone at Lexington was talking about how he was overpriced and never going to be a sire.  Beyond popular belief he has zero pedigree.  NOTHING. his bottom side is non existent.

I agree his family isn't much, but there's a good number of successful sires without great pedigree (and equally many with great pedigrees and terrible production).

My bigger concern with him is his inability to string together more than a couple races without the wheels falling off. At two, he got away with it because he really was that much better, but it was also apparent at two he wasn't surefooted. I assumed he was just a big gangly body with so much speed he wasn't really capable of handling it yet. But it seems more likely he wasn't sound then either.

[The Answer]

Short memory? Won 18 of 23 lifetime and 21 and 23 in the money. “Inability to string together more than a couple races without the wheels falling off” Huh?

His pedigree is no worse than Walner or Chapter Seven the two best trotting sires in the sport.