Who was (is) your harness racing guru?

[Mohawk mac]

We all learned about handicapping and betting from someone.  Who were the biggest influences in your journey to becoming a Broken Down Horseplayer?

My dad was first.  Dad was a casual player who went to the track sporadically.  He was a terrible handicapper and bettor.  And that was when he was sober.  Once he started drinking, he was worse.  But I learned a lot about what NOT to do from him.  "Bet the solid horse to place" was his motto.  That should give you some clue about how profitable most of his track visits were.  Thanks for introducing me to horse racing Dad.  We had a lot of fun.  I hope you are still playing in Heaven.

Next came Richard Carter aka Tom Ainslie.  Ainslie's Complete Guide To Harness Racing was a landmark work.  Both the first and second edition.  I learned quite a bit reading both editions cover to cover a few times.

I attended a few seminars conducted by Al Stanley.  Learned a ton.  The only "bad" thing I can say about Al is that one night when we were at Maywood Park, he told me that a horse I owned had "no shot" despite being favored.  Turns out he was right.  The horse he selected and gave out to his students won and paid $17.20.     His basic philosophy still works for me despite CAWS, drug trainers, changes in track surfaces and race bikes.

[Scooteroo]

Several things, unless the horse looks like he has a broken leg, don't let someone talk you off the horse if you really like it. Second, when everybody likes the same horse, don't bet it because it almost never wins. Finally, when you're ahead good money, don't be afraid to walk away and go home, because when you start to get greedy you usually end up losing it all back and then some. Maybe the biggest one is, don't chase your loses by trying to get even, tomorrow is another day.

[Birdfantammy]

Several things, unless the horse looks like he has a broken leg, don't let someone talk you off the horse if you really like it. Second, when everybody likes the same horse, don't bet it because it almost never wins. Finally, when you're ahead good money, don't be afraid to walk away and go home, because when you start to get greedy you usually end up losing it all back and then some. Maybe the biggest one is, don't chase your loses by trying to get even, tomorrow is another day.

Well said!  I had someone talk me off a horse last week that cost me.  I had it right and would have made some good money in a tri and super.  I was so mad at myself.  Again it happened Sat night at Meadowlands when everyone was picking Bartlett on the 7 horse.  I didn't have him.  I had the 3 at 25/1 that got second.  I tossed the 3 and put in Barlett instead who didnt hit the board.   Cost me the tri and super.  So frustrating. 

And 2 weeks ago I bet the wrong race at Pocono.  My mistake paid well lol.  Caught the tri by accident which paid $430.  I was shocked when I saw all this money in my account.  I was an idiot and used it to try and make more money this weekend and lost most of it.  Taking some shots cost me and I learned a lesson.  Won't do that again!

[Scooteroo]

What happens sometimes, when someone doesn't like your horse, he'll try to talk you off it by touting his horse, and in turn it plants a seed of doubt in your head about your horse.

[Mohawk mac]

What happens sometimes, when someone doesn't like your horse, he'll try to talk you off it by touting his horse, and in turn it plants a seed of doubt in your head about your horse.

One of my partners talked a newbie co-worker of ours off a horse at Maywood many moons ago.  I forget if the horse Baby Del was the one he bet or the one he got talked out of.  But the one he liked initially won and paid over $40.00 to win.  First and last time at the track with us.   

[Scooteroo]

What really happens is you end up talking yourself off the horse because someone else's opinion gets in your head, but naturally you're going to blame them.

[Jctoronto]

Tasty tidbits come from many corners.

One railbird wag, Ziggy from North Toronto, saw me after keying horse in a couple spots in a tri and an ex., and lose.

He asked afterwards, 'you bet him across the board first right?'....I didn't.

And always did ever since.

[Scooteroo]

Back in the old days betting a horse across the board was ok, but nowadays it seems the place and show prices especially on favorites are usually crushed to the point where it's not worth playing.

[Loose Horse]

Igor Kusyshyn, Al Stanley and Len Ragozin.

I only bet to win. I never box/wheel anything (except HI-5 mandatory payout) - cold Ex, Tri and Super only. The only time I take a spread is in multis.

[RR70s]

Several things, unless the horse looks like he has a broken leg, don't let someone talk you off the horse if you really like it. Second, when everybody likes the same horse, don't bet it because it almost never wins. Finally, when you're ahead good money, don't be afraid to walk away and go home, because when you start to get greedy you usually end up losing it all back and then some. Maybe the biggest one is, don't chase your loses by trying to get even, tomorrow is another day.

Everything you list is completely accurate.
I mostly agree about walking away but I give it a few shots but not big money bets.

[The collector]

I grew up with a family in Harness racing. They taught me how to read a program. hanging around barn from time to time I picked up on other things like what to look for sickness in a Barn maybe not use them ,lameness, Healthy,Ears sticking up and other things just from watching them care and train horses.they tried telling me you can’t bet every race .I thought OK give it a shot. I wasn’t a big bettor but didn’t fare too well. I bet about every race when I go down . But it wasn’t until Years Later I met a Fellow Horse Player at Work we became good friends. He taught me to be Patient. Don’t Bet Every Race,lol  Study Races and Program (Harness Eye ) back then and Take Notes and watch as many replay's I  could . He was the Best I ever saw Handicapping. I did pretty good after I stopped being stubborn by overthinking. RIP JT 🙏 thanks for making it Fun and Not Going Broke idid pretty good after his lessons . The Best I’ve seen he Bet Win and Exacts only maybe exacta box here and there.

[JT]

Great topic Mohawk Mac. My two biggest influences were definitely my Dad and Grandfather. My grandfather was a small time owner for decades and his horses would race mostly at the county fair circuit in Ohio and occasionally at Scioto. I remember as a kid riding with him and my grandmother in their El Camino all over the state to watch his horses race. All the kids wanted to ride the rides and play the games and I wanted to be back in the barns and watch the races. When one of their horses won the excitement was off the charts, you would have thought they just won the LBJ. With betting my Grandpa would always say " you can't beat em" In other words you're going to lose in the long run, but pick your spots and then hammer them. My Dad is who taught me how to read a program and how to wager. He had two sayings. The first was "study long, study wrong." I agree with that to this day. The longer you study a race, you start second guessing your initial gut instinct. The second saying was " take the favorite and put him second" He was a firm believer in that for exactas and it can work pretty good. When I first joined horseplop last year it was an outlet to take my mind off of my Dad's cancer treatment. He was stage 4 melanoma that had spread to his lung and brain. Some of you might remember that some not, no biggie either way. Anyway I had not mentioned until now, he passed away in late November on my mother's birthday. I miss him immensely and the LBJ will never be the same without him sitting in my families box. RIP Pops and send us some winners this year

[Chessington]

Very nice story. Sorry for your loss

[SeattleSlew]

In the mid 60's Ernest Dahlman was an early master of a wager called the Twin Double.  What I learned from him was the power of a large bankroll when playing low probability bets, like a pick 5.  It certainly helps swing what's left after takeout into the "smart money" hands relative to the smaller bettor.  Later on I learned a lot about horses and racing from many talented and "street smart" trainers and drivers when I became an owner for 25+ years.  The list of names would fill a page and probably contain many of the logical suspects.   I still follow several tracks closely and pick my wagering spots carefully, but gave up owning horses when we moved West, as the closest active harness tracks are Los Alamitos and Fraser, and driving 400+ miles north or 1100 miles south to see my horses race, just doesn't cut it.  What I miss the most is being able to jog one of mine occasionally; almost as good as watching them race.

[RR70s]

Great topic Mohawk Mac. My two biggest influences were definitely my Dad and Grandfather. My grandfather was a small time owner for decades and his horses would race mostly at the county fair circuit in Ohio and occasionally at Scioto. I remember as a kid riding with him and my grandmother in their El Camino all over the state to watch his horses race. All the kids wanted to ride the rides and play the games and I wanted to be back in the barns and watch the races. When one of their horses won the excitement was off the charts, you would have thought they just won the LBJ. With betting my Grandpa would always say " you can't beat em" In other words you're going to lose in the long run, but pick your spots and then hammer them. My Dad is who taught me how to read a program and how to wager. He had two sayings. The first was "study long, study wrong." I agree with that to this day. The longer you study a race, you start second guessing your initial gut instinct. The second saying was " take the favorite and put him second" He was a firm believer in that for exactas and it can work pretty good. When I first joined horseplop last year it was an outlet to take my mind off of my Dad's cancer treatment. He was stage 4 melanoma that had spread to his lung and brain. Some of you might remember that some not, no biggie either way. Anyway I had not mentioned until now, he passed away in late November on my mother's birthday. I miss him immensely and the LBJ will never be the same without him sitting in my families box. RIP Pops and send us some winners this year

Sorry for your loss JT.
My dad taught me very similar. In fact when he said over and over “think long think wrong”, I listened but truly didn’t understand until college because there was some crazy statistic about how either overthinking or changing an answer is wrong. Your first thought and answer is many times the correct one.